chaos/marx

Ron Press anclondon at gn.apc.org
Sat Apr 1 19:03:09 MST 1995


Hi

>>>>>>>> From: Paul Cockshott <wpc at clyder.gn.apc.org> 25 years of
civil war have also tended to hold back economic advance.
					 <<<<<<<<<<<<

Could I add that the civil war in Ireland has been going on for
about 300 years or more. The IRA is no recent phenomina.

During the potato famine Ireland was exporting pork, wheat and a
mass of other foodstufs to the UK.

Anybody who has read of the history of Ireland will cry at the
crimes of the British State against the people. There is a history
of Ireland I beleive written by the secretary of the Irish CP I
will try to get more details.

James Connelly was a boyhood hero of mine. A Socialist, a Trade
Unionist, a Revolutionary, murdered by the British. Many of my
heroes have been tarnished not Connelly.

About the reactionary nature of the expatriot Irish. I wonder
sometimes if it is a rule of history that the most opressed become
the worst opressors when liberated.

I was born a Jew not an Israeli, but what the Israeli's have done
and are still doing to the Palestinians in the name of the Jews,
defies reason. The Irish in the USA seem similar. Then again the
Americans fought a war of liberation against the British and are
not too progressive now. The Boers in South Africa were held in
the worlds first concentration camps only to do worse things to
the Africans after they won independence after the Boer War.

Remember the old song.

The working class can kiss my arse Iv'e got the foreman's job at
last.

But then again it cannot be a law of nature because there are
exceptions.

>>>>>>>>>> From: Justin Schwartz <jschwart at freenet.columbus.oh.us

Once this is understood, if it is agreeable, then we see that even
if there is a directionality to history, towards socialism or
whatever, that does not settle the question whether history is
progressive
			       <<<<<<<<<<<<<
I agree that the term Progress is a value judgement. Time is
impersonal and abstract. The two should not be conflated as so
often is done. But further Progress is not inevitable. I think we
all agree it has to be worked for. Time goes on, but progress does
not necessarily come with it.

Ron Press.


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