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I think this is what Steve is talking about.

With reference to your message with the subject:
   "Re: Socialist Utopia"

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Date: Tue, 04 Jul 1995 17:43:01 -0500
To: marxism at
From: Scott Marshall <Scott at>
Subject: Re: Socialist Utopia
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>Lenin is the last person in the world who I would accuse of having
>blue-prints. He veered between war communism and the NEP in no time at
>all. He was for what worked. I am reminded of charges of how "utopian"
>and quixotic Fidel Castro is. The Cuban Government has gone through more
>policy changes in the last 35 years than all bourgeois goverments
>combined. We vote and vote and we still get downsizing and urban decay no
>matter who we vote for. I'm coming around to the viewpoint that
>"totalitarian" Cuba is ten times more democratic than the United States.

10 X doesn't scratch the surface. Democracy is not only about voting and
proceedures but fundementally it's about power and how and in whose
interests its exercized. Also, as Lenin pointed out in an earlier marxist
discussion of democracy - only bourgois democracy is about majorities and
minorites, real democracy is about classes. Fundementally state monoploy
captialism is in power in the US and the working class is in power in Cuba.
This in no way argues against perfecting socialist democracy - which both
Lenin and Castro concentrated/consentrate on.

And gee Louis why do I agree with you so much of the time.....are you

And further, if you ever tweak my nose, and I find out about it, you'll get
a swift kick back....<deadpan>

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