Justin Schwartz jschwart at freenet.columbus.oh.us
Mon Jun 12 19:51:50 MDT 1995

Well, who's the true believer? I don;t think the US is particularly
democratic, and that's one reason I want to overthrow the government. But
I know a thing or two about the USSR--and for what it;s worth I've been to
Russia and talked to lots of former Soviet citizens there and here--and I
know that the repressive dictatorship there had no shaddow of democratic
content. That's one main reason it wasn't in any real sense socialist. I
don't denigrate the USSR's real accomplishments in establishing an
(authoritarian) welfare state and extending social benefits, education,
and so forth to most of its citizens. I think that the loss of these is
kkeenly felt and regrettable, and in Russia, unlike Czechia or Hungary,
not even offset by the establishment of genuine liberal democratic norms.
Still I regard the collapse of Stalinism as a long terem positive thing.
One down, one to go.

--Justin Schwartz

On Mon, 12 Jun 1995, Scott Marshall wrote:

> Justin:
> >Ifit makes sense to make compoarisons, I think one has to say that the
> >American system was, for the first hundred years of existence, evolving
> >more in a democratic directiuon politically than the Societ system in the
> >70 years of its existence.
> Scott:
> Justin you haven't a clue. I hate to get into this again because it's
> pointless with true believers like you who certainly won't let the
> actualities of working people's lives get in the way of their 'profound
> analysis', but I just returned from California where I met with some folks
> from the former Soviet Union. You have to hear the horrors first hand. And
> you know Justin, it's *your* government that is most responsible for the
> horror. Anyone who can celebrate, as you often do on this list, the collapse
> of the SU just hasn't a clue about what socialism, with all it's problems,
> meant to the average working person. Try going over there and telling the
> millions who are hungry for the first time in their lives, the millions who
> have no pension, the thousands now newly homeless, without health care,
> without child care etc etc etc, that they're beter off now because their's
> wasn't a 'true' democracy as defined by Justine.
> As to your above quote on democracy in the US v. democracy in SU, only the
> most self deluded true believer could swallow this piece of hysterical nonsense.
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