Jim Jaszewski ab975 at
Wed Jun 21 21:39:05 MDT 1995

On Sun, 18 Jun 1995, Ron Press wrote:

> What I was trying to say was that in a dynamic system like
> society. there must be a system of constant feedback and
> flexability to maintain some sort of stability. It is not possible
> for any small group or individual to monitor let alone control or
> act in a sensible manner to guide the whole of society.

	Was it your message I was replying to??

	I'm kinda new here, and most of the personalities here haven't
yet acquired a personal relevance to me -- except for the "I am not a
marxist -- yet I am here" types...

	If it was your message, I don't believe I was necessarily
criticizing it -- I was only pointing out that it was not dealing with any
particular 'concrete' things, and thus certain personalities would
'gravitate' towards it, as they would tend to avoid subjects on which
they'd have to take a principled stand, and actually risk censure.

	In the above situation you describe, I can think of not a few
dictators who have proved the point that a small clique or one strongman
will eventually lead their society into the abyss...

	The most recent would be Saddam Hussein (may he rest in Hell), the
old U.S. bumboy turned pariah.

Power in the hands of such a megalomaniac, no matter HOW intelligent and
'dynamic', is in no way better than power held, at least in the NAME of
the people, by a 'representative' group. He may have used (some of) the
wealth and hard work of Iraq and the Iraqi people to build a fairly
strong(?) civil society, but for me, this ALWAYS begs the question: How
much GREATER would that civil society be if it were actually half

> For example the brain does not have a central information storage
> system. It is distributed so that there is damage limitation.
> Certain functions of the human body are controlled by automatic
> feedback systems. However a simple act like walking involves
> almost the whole brain. There is no major control centre. If one
> part of the brain is destroyed, the organism can continue
> sometimes almost unimpaired.

	I agree with you 100%.  This is the way I consider it too (not to
mention that the most robust societies are the ones with the most

> The organisation of a socialist society should mirror the
> structure of the brain rather than that of the automobile.

	You'll have to defeat the 'vulgar' marxists first.  |>

> 	Doesn't the idea of the Soviet represent the best solution
> 	to
> this problem?
> 				      <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> What is a soviet? It was originally constituted as a committee
> repreasenting a section of society at various levels. The Village
> soviet, the soldiers soviet, the soviet of peasants and workers.
> and so on.

	Well I guess *OUR* job is to help in re-defining the concept --
if not the reality...

> I suppose the present day equivalents would be the Mothers Union
> committee, the Shopstewards committee, the University senate (If
> it were elected) and so on.

	They could only exist in a revolutionary situation, and would
thus be more along the lines of factory/workplace councils, student
federations, etc., no?

> The Supreme Soviet was supposed to be a committee of committees.
> It degenerated into a puppet of the CPSU since in all the soviets
> the party took the leading positions.

	This wasn't inevitable, but history will SURE REPEAT ITSELF if we
don't learn its lessons..!!

> To my mind the socialist state should be a facilitator of the
> organisations of the people. Coordinating and assisting them to
> run the society.

	One lesson that's emerged is that there's NO WAY this is going to
be accomplished 'after the revolution'. In order for peoples' soviets to
function 'on the ground', they have to have been part of the revolutionary
process itself -- and function autonomously with the clear idea of _NOT_
giving up their power to a central 'authority'...

> It needs a radical rethinking of the structure of socialism. Not
> the principals of socialism.



   Jim Jaszewski   <jazz at>

   WWW homepage:   <>

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