"marxism", "dialectics" and "science"
ab975 at main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca
Fri Jun 23 22:14:35 MDT 1995
On Fri, 23 Jun 1995, Louis N Proyect wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jun 1995, Jim Jaszewski wrote:
> > As I've stated B4, this isn't un-similar to a feminism list being
> > taken over by opinionated males. The ludicrousness of THAT situation
> > should be clear...
> Louis Proyect:
> This list is sort of the cyberspace equivalent of the Socialist Scholars
> Conference, where you will also find plenty of anti-Marxist Marxism.
I think you've hit the nail on the head, Louis.
> This tepid academic quasi-Marxism draws from a number of themes:
> 1. Leninism is a disaster.
Lenin was a great man who made some GREAT BIG mistakes. I wonder
if anyone here would've done half as well...
> 2. Planned economy bad; market socialism good.
Yeah, Gorby did a REAL good job in the USSR...
> 3. Dialectics mumbo-jumbo, analytic Marxism more "scientific".
This is what I came here to find out -- one way or the other.
> 4. Enlightenment inspired belief in "progress" leads to totalitarianism;
> postmodernist skepticism less dangerous.
Sounds like the Thatcherites, Reaganites, Bushites(!) and the New
Republic types when they gloated over the 'End to Revolutions' at their
200th anniversary wake for the French Revolution in Paris... |>
> 5. No priority given to class, socialism must yield to "radical democracy".
These guys will lead us to our deaths yet...
> 6. LTV obsolete and flawed; Sraffa and other neo-Ricardian
> approaches work better.
This is what I came here to find out -- are these guys as smart
as they imply, or are they just trying to pull the bourgeois wool over
our eyes from yet another angle??
If Marx is wrong -- OK!! We'll have to deal with that -- but from
what I've learned so far, as they say, 'reports of his death are
> 7. Austrians (Hayek, Popper, etc.) must be listened to.
...And I suppose the fascist philosopher, Ayn Rand has to get her two
cents-worth in too... It's one thing to take what is valuable in an
opponent's reasoning -- it's another to swallow his line, hook, sinker and
Thanx for coming to my rescue, Louis -- I was trying to figure a
way not to let certain individuals manipulate me into looking like an
extremist -- you've covered my ass somewhat! :)
(My not having responded to Rahul and others yet is a result of
my having put aside their posts for when I have the time for a 'nasty'
little 'polemic'... |> ). Perhaps this might allow some face-saving on
all sides...(doubt it, tho')
You've been here a while, so it would be harder for the
'anti-marxist marxists' to gang up on you -- though I have noticed in the
short time I've been here that we are often both arrayed against the same
> My suggestion is to live with it and have fun. I have found my own
> understanding of Marxism much improved after contending with these
> sorts of issues.
So is my intent. However, having the local censor coming after me
so soon was/is giving me the impression that there is far too much of the
petit bourgeois mentality here -- it seems to be just like any open
'politics' echo! :<
The reason so many academic Marxists subscribe to
> these beliefs has to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union.
I wasn't overjoyed with its collapse, but I didn't lose much sleep
either. I've always been of the mind that the actually existing USSR was
an embarrassment and an affront to socialists the world over -- we're
better off starting from scratch (with the lessons of the recent past as
grist for the new theoretical mill...)
> understanding of socialism has to arrive out of the ashes of this
> disaster and this list is as good as any place to start.
That's why _I'M_ here... I've never had problems with seeing
socialist elements -- even in the 'deformed' Workers' States -- or
believing there was a completely dialectical way to view the universe...
Hell, there are even REAL communists in the Chinese Communist
Party I'm sure!! |>
Jim Jaszewski <jazz at freenet.hamilton.on.ca> [DOWN TEMPORARILY]
WWW homepage: <http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html>
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