versions of LTV

Lisa Rogers eqwq.lrogers at
Fri Nov 3 23:23:18 MST 1995

From: Mauro junior <mauro.jr at>
LR:  Dear Mauro, I am sending a copy of this direct to you, in
addition to the list.  Hope it works.

The polemics on whether Keen is marxist or not, is going to be
LR:  I agree.  The only reason I am posting on this now is to try to
extract/ summarize some issues aside from Keen's alleged motivations.

Miller says >  Steve assumes capitalism>is permanent
I'm new in the list and didn't know Keen before. Is the above point
LR: Well, that is Miller's interpretation [he is also fairly new, I
think]. I've never noticed Steve to say so, or to imply it [been here
since March].

Is not the main task of "marxists" to support the hate for
capitalism, instead of theorize the impossibility of the revolution,
due ... to the so-called waknesses of the LTV?
LR:  Mauro, do you think that any new or different or re-analysis of
LTV _must_ logically result in a theory/conclusion that revolution is

Are _you_ saying that revolution is _only_ possible _if_ the
traditional version of the LTV is true?  Your own view is not clear
to me.  (I don't see Steve saying revolution is impossible.)

Here are some issues that we are not all going to agree on, but might
bear some discussion:

1.  If traditional interpretation of LTV is flawed, is revolution
therefore _im_possible?  Why?

2.  If is it flawed, should we still keep it?  Why?

3.  If it is flawed, is it really the end of marxism?  Why?

4.  Is it better to keep a bad LTV argument because it helps the
cause of anti-capitalism?  Or could a better argument help the cause
even more?


P.S. Just because one argument of the past could turn out to be
flawed, that doesn't destroy everything for _me_, because I didn't
build my whole concept of marxism around that particular argument in
the first place.  To some people, that means that I didn't learn it
"right", but how shall I decide who has the "correct" understanding
of the LTV to teach me?  Each one gets a different theory from the
same book!

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