HERE 2850 spurns democracy

CEP iwp.ilo at
Wed Nov 22 21:56:30 MST 1995

You wrote: 
>The RTL seems to be upset that they spit on the union leadership at 
>and then are upset that they weren't invited back into meetings so 
>can then report and highlight divisions on strategy publicly.  They 
>every right to say what they want; they don't have the right to demand 

>inside information and attendance at strategy meetings when they use 
>information to blast the organizing.  It's childish and stupid on 
    Carlos Replies:

    This is simply stupid.  Since when you hide a political discussion
    in the working class because you don't want the discussion to be
    known to the bosses?  What about if you have a proposed contract
    by the negotiating team and you think is a sellout?  Would you
    then not discuss it because that will give management inside        
    knowledge of the differences?

    This seems to me as if you are proposing to curtail discussion with
    the old, yes, stalinist argument that discussion hurt the cause of
    the working class.  I will remind you of the preface to the         
    Communist Manifesto written by Engels "Marx have confidence in that
    the working class will advance only by fighting united and          
    discussing and arguing each difference".

    Nathan wrote:
>You may not like the strategy adopted by HERE 2850 of scaring off 
>business and destroying the hotel's customer base and using the media 
>highlight losses in business to further scare off other businesses, 
>when you deliberately undermine that strategy by claiming business 
>fallen off significantly (in which you are wrong anyways), don't 
>to be invited back to try to further undermine the credibility of the 
>union.  It's also just irritating and people don't want you around 
>you are so negative.  That's life.  I'm sure you won't invite me to 
>next meeting, either.

    Carlos Replies:

    I think RTL points are simply unexperienced, sectarian bullshit.    
    The kind I heard many times.  But they do reflect the opinion of
    somebody who is helping the struggle?  Then you debate them.  C'mon
    Nathan, if they say what you and they said they say, then what is
    the problem.  I'm pretty sure workers will dismiss them with a
    shrug of their shoulders and move the agenda to the next point.     
    And, if they become disruptive and impeded businesss being carry
    out in meetings, then let the workers themselves take the decision
    to ask them to leave.  If you, or any union official take that
    decision for the workers, then you're paternalistic.

    Natahn wrote:

>As to the substance of your statement in favor of mass picketing, 
>laughable.  If HERE 2850 could pull off mass pickets, they probably 
>love to.  But they are a small local that is devoting every dime of 
>available resources to defending these 100 workers at Lafayette Park, 
>town a ways into the suburbs with no strong union movement in that or 
>surrounding towns.  It's takes every dime of resources to keep a 
>line out there every Friday and, to be blunt, the union's resources 
>not survive a labor injunction from the courts and the union could not 

>count on the mass public response ion Lafayette to protect them.
    Carlos Replies:

    See, Nathan, here YOU ARE ARGUING.  That's the way.  I think, too
    that RTL's proposals of mass picket lines and so on CAN ONLY BE     
    MADE IF YOU CAN GUARANTEE THEM.  This is not the case in Lafayette
    and it is not the case with 2850.  I'm pretty sure workers can 
    understand and vote on it.  Cant' you?  But again, the question is
    whos decides for the workers? You, the RTL, the labor organizers or
    the workers themselves?  It is called workers democracy.
    The RTL, or you for that matter, are not used to real rank-and-file
    organzing, that's evident.  You are BOTH OUTSIDERS AND ACT AND TALK
    LIKE OUTSIDERS. You differ only in tactics, not in method. Let's    
    see yopur next example

    Nathan wrote:

>In fact, one of the N. Cal CoC Labor Task Force leaders, Phyllis 
>was the finance director of 790 and one of the whistleblowers.  She 
>her job over that challenge to 790's top leadership.  CoC just last 
>help a forum of rank-and-file 790 stewards and activists to talk about 

>the future of SEIU 790.  That is the best way to build rank-and-file 
>militancy, not just handing out leaflets at demonstrations.

    Carlos Replies:

    Phyllis Willet is not some kind of rank and file fired by the
    Union bureaucracy for organizing a rank and file, political         

    Phyllis, Shelleda and others were long time bureaucrats who worked
    closely with the sector of the bureacracy for 10, 15 and even 18
    years!  They never blowwhistled until they were discovered plotting
    a coup d'etat against Varacalli and Mony.  In fact, they didn't     
    have any other program but replacing Varacalli with Shelleda. No
    political program, no rank and file organizing.  The fact that you
    wrote that only now, almost two years after the first skirmishes
    took place. you talk about a "meeting" is sufficient proof.
    The struggle in 790 was a struggle in the upper echelon of the
    union, involving two wings of the same bureaucracy.  One lost and
    got fired.  The other won.
    Now, if you're talking about a 'REAL MOVEMENT', START BY DEFINING
    The RTL share with you on this issue, the same position.

    Nathan wrote:

>Instead, we see "left" organizations spending most of their time 
>leafletting crowds or selling newspapers rather than doing the hard 
>of organizing.  The working class will follow the hard workers over 
>leafletters any day.
    Carlos Replies:

    You try to tell another distinct organization how to behave. Who
    appointed you the arbiter of conduct in the left?.  That was the 
way Stalinist used to act when they have some control of the workers
    movement.  Sorry, Nathan, they lost it.  You did.  If the RTL acted
    in the way you propose, they will probably be in Committees of
    Correpondence.  No, no, no and no.  They should behave in the way
    they choose.  Your right is to debate them in front of eveyone else
    and take a vote if you want to expell them.  Otherwise, you,        
    without noticing it,are applying the same method.  RTL "dictates"
    the working class what to do and you DETERMINE WHAT THE WORKING     
    CLASS HAVE TO DO.  What a teamwork of incompetence.




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