Stu Shafer sshafer at
Mon Oct 30 16:36:02 MST 1995

This is the last shot I'm gonna fire in this ridiculous interpersonal war
with Louis. I'm sorry I even mentioned his name in the first place, but
Louis is right about one thing, so it's time for me to do some
self-criticism. I have been more of a consumer than a producer in this
group. I admitted to being a lurker. Instead of jumping in as a "kibbitzer"
on other threads, I should initiate some of my own. The critic who only
criticizes without putting his/her own ideas forward for criticism is
justifiably looked upon with scorn. Newbies like myself who see this method
as a way to ease themselves into the conversation should beware the
impression it creates.

As for Louis's characterizations of what I have said, he certainly has an
interesting memory and/or database of what various people contribute; his
misunderstandings speak for themselves. As for his invitation for me to
reveal more about myself as a person, I decline for two reasons: 1)
credentials are not the criteria by which marxists should judge each others'
contributions to the current struggles; the failure of Louis's own
self-promoted resume to win debates is a case in point; 2) I see no point in
contributing free personal information to whatever pigs are monitoring this
list; let them do their own "research."

As for whether Louis Proyect likes me, I don't really care. I've pointed out
a couple of points where I thought he had some insight. He should, however,
read more carefully and thoroughly. A sabbatical sounds like just the thing.

At 08:19 AM 10/30/95 -0500, Louis N Proyect wrote:
>On Sun, 29 Oct 1995, Stu Shafer wrote:
>> I seem to have succeeded where others have tried and driven Louis away. And
>> I wasn't even trying.
>Sigh! I had to go out to the Beemer and turn the engine off. You are
>right about something, Stu. I don't like you at all. Here are the reasons:
>1) When you first materialized on the list some months ago, your very
>first post was something to the effect of "Sniff, what a waste of time
>this list is. I'm signing off."
>2) Your next "intervention", about a week later, was to say something
>like: "Hmmmm, there might be something more here than meets the eye.
>Maybe I'll hang in a little while longer and give these jokers a chance."
>(You gave me the impression of somebody trying to decide whether or not
>to send in some money for a renewal. You seem more like a consumer than a
>producer, to put it bluntly.)
>3) Your next post is a rather substantial re-post of an attack on Louis
>Farrakhan from some professor somewhere. You announce that you "hardly
>have time" to get into a discussion over these issues, but offer somebody
>else's two cents.
>4) Then you come to the defense of Ahab #2, James Hill, by stating that
>he and you, I would assume, are trying the best you can to raise the
>theoretical discussion of the list but it keeps being dragged down by
>MIM3 and Louis Proyect.
>Stu, I don't flame people. I do indulge in ad hominem attacks, however,
>when I get the chance. You have set yourself up as critic of the list,
>but have not contributed anything of substance. You strike me as a
>kibitzer. You allude to your history of "praxis". I wonder what that is?
>Why don't you stop being so vague and tell us a little more about Stu
>Shafer and what he has to offer the list.
><insert smiling face here>

     --- from list marxism at ---


More information about the Marxism mailing list