MIM vs. the Chegitz
mluziett at shrike.depaul.edu
Sun Oct 29 12:05:46 MST 1995
On Sat, 28 Oct 1995, Maoist Internationalist Movement wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Oct 1995, Jim Jaszewski wrote:
> > How anyone (but a police agent) can SERIOUSLY defend Stalin is
> > beyond _this_ komrade... MIM just duzn't get it.
> Pat for MIM replies: You think we haven't heard all these
> criticisms of Stalin before? Like we need more brainwashing
> because we don't get it? Do you think we don't know the
> communist goal is one without a state, war or violence of any kind?
> Making the promises is easy; the gettin' there is the hard part.
True enough. But the ends do not justify the means, necessarily. Just
because we believe that human being can have a better world, doesn't give
us the right to just slaughter those opposed us. Frankly, I would only
consider killing those actively engaged in armed insurrection against the
workers' state, and then, only in combat. It serves no useful purpose to
execute those already neutralized by capture.
> Why don't you answer the questions we pose to others
> regarding the 1930s (or the 1920s if you think Stalin
> indefensible then)?
Gerenally, we do.
> 1. Can you name a successful movement against fascism
> in any of Europe that was not led by Stalin-inspired
> communists? Was it generalizable and what was it called?
Yes, it was called imperialism. This, however, is not an option for us.
There were also Tito's Partisans.
> 2. Is there an example of something done to stop
> fascists outside the Soviet Union that prevented
> fascist seizure of state power and that you liked and wasn't led by
> Stalin-inspired communists in the 1930s?
No one prevented the fascist seizure of power.
> 3. Do you admit that fascism triumphed in several
> countries and had tens of millions of supporters?
Yep, no thanks to Stalin.
> 4. C.G. claimed Stalin executed 3 million. If that
> is true are you saying there weren't 3 million
> people supporting fascism in the Soviet Union?
> Or are you saying there may have been more than
> that but Stalin had the wrong people killed?
I don't particularly believe that fascism was all that popular in the
U.S.S.R. But, if it was, what does that say about the failure of the
Revolution to deliver on its promises? Fascism only arises where the
workers' fail to carry through the revolution (this is not it's sole
ingrediant, but enough for ur purposes here).
> 5. Exactly what years of Stalin's rule do you
> think were indefensible and with view to
> repression, how much repression by Stalin was
> there in those years and do you or don't you
> think World War II was already in progress in those
I think that Stalin never should have been in any position of authority.
He invaded Soviet Georgia, he caused the failure of the war on Poland, he
had the Chinese CP enter into a suicidal alliance with the Kuomindong,
the Britsh general strike capitulate, the German KPD fight the SPD while
the Nazi's grew in stregnth, surrendered the French general strike, lost
the war in Spain, executed the Bolshevik leadership, decapitated the Red
Army, help RE-ARM AND TRAIN the Nazi German army and air force, built the
gulag system, executed millions of LOYAL soviets, signed the
Non-Agression pact with Hitler, allowing Hitler to take Poland (had the
U.S.S.R. and Nazi Germany gone to war in 1939, Germany would likely have
lost), allowed the Warsaw uprising to be crushed, crushed the Berlin
workers' strikes after the war, deported the Crimean Tatars, deported the
Kazahks, prepared a program against the Jewish people of the U.S.S.R.,
had the Italian revolution surrender to the Allies, and so on.
> 6. Are there any written histories that you
> support for us to read about the 1930s in Europe
> and World War II that meet the following
> a. Don't whitewash fascism, its extent and
> popularity--including outside Germany and Italy.
> b. Point to a successful method of dealing
> with the Nazis.
I'll let others point these out, mainly since I can't remember most of
these off he top of my head.
> Whether it was Norway or Hungary, ethnic Germans
> in Czechoslavakia, Romania or Austria fascism
> had numerous victories. The nationalism of certain
> European peoples--including the French--denies this
> today, many out of embarassment, others
> out of an agenda seeing fascism as preferable
> to communism. During the Cold War, Western
> bourgeois scholars and journalists, not to mention high school
> textbook writers--they all let the former fascists
> off the hook as part of a need to delegitimize the
> role the Soviet Union played in defeating
> fascism througout Europe. When fascism was discussed
> it was a matter of just Italy and Germany according to these
> apologists for fascism and Cold Warriors. In this
> way the Cold Warriors secured the support of European
> nationalisms of all kind.
> The Cold Warrior habit of whitewashing fascism
> continues to this day and now we see its fruits in
> Italy again. Berlusconi is not Mussolini, but anyone
> can see where things are headed. We at MIM are
> increasingly impatient with people who one-sidedly
> attack Stalin without showing a better path for
> fighting fascism in the 1930s. Stalin's repressions
> cannot be separated from Hitler's rise to power.
While most of what you say is correct, it is misleading to blame Stalin's
excesses on Hitler. Hitler could not have come to power without the
complicity of Stalinism. Stalinism and Hitlerism were to sides of the same
coin of reaction. Both products and causes of the failure of workers'
revolution to spread beyond Russia.
Marc, "the Chegitz," Luzietti
"Behold, they are as one people, and they all have one language;
and this is only the begining of what they will do; and nothing that they
propose to do will now be impossible for them." -- GOD, on solidarity
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