Proyect Speaks IF ONLY..... IF ONLY......

hariette spierings hariette at
Mon Apr 1 18:05:00 MST 1996

>Lou Proyect asked me to forward this to the list:
>>I could make this individual look pathetic if he accepted a challenge to
>>debate me on any of the following subjects:
>>1) Stalin's role in the colonial revolution (consideration of Indochina,
>>Palestine and other struggles)
>>2) Stalin as anti-Nazi (how Stalin approached the challenge of Nazism
>>before and after it was in power)
>>3) Stalin and the Popular Front (Character of Popular Front in Spain
>>and France)
>>Now that this list has turned into the Shining Path list with Hans
>>Ebhar leading the way, I don't  think it can get any worse.
>>Watch Adolfo try to worm his way out of this challenge.
>>Louis Proyect

My gawd!:  I told douggy doug doug to got fetch the paper, and he did!
Nothing less than one carrying His Masters Voice complete with engraved duel
card with self serving choice of guns included!  What a pathetic case
Proyect is.!

So, what does the Trotskyst hero wants NOW to debate?  Marxist theory, no!.
Not his field, despite his dabbling into that with the greatest chuztpah!

Gossip and innuendo with "historical pretensions" - that is his field not
mine. If he wants to debate something, what about his own claims to
Leninism?  That is something that a Marxist cannot avoid, historical
analysis is an specialised subject, and moreover, I am no "Stalinist"
myself.  I have never held that Stalin did everything perfectly, or that he
did not commit mistakes, even Stalin himself expressed that very same thing
in reference at least to China.

Maybe Proyect could try Shangwi Tell for something like this, if what he
wants is to vent his spleen on Stalin's own concrete role in every specific

The only thing I can say about this pathetic request is that I do not think
this type of debate serves anything but Louis Proyect's own obssession with
backseat driving revolutions, preferibly revolutions in the past, where his
"sources" and "authorities" are not the Classics of Marxism, but merely
other Trotskysts, social democrat and downright reactionary writers, and in
which Stalin is blamed for every thing and the worst posible light is put
into evey speculation of the arm chair generals of Trotskysm.  If Proyect
had only 10% of Stalin's sense of self-criticism - and Stalin was an
historical actor, and not a hindsight observer like Proyect, he would not be
making himself look so ridiculous once again.

If he wants to have a debate of this nature, he should try a Spanish Civil
War list, or an Indonesian belly dancing group to work out his frustrations.

Moreover, is this the same Louis Proyect that oppossed a debate on Stalin as
a Marxist alleging that it would not solve anything?  How come he does not
have anyother topic to debate now?  A Marxism list is not for
historiography, (gossipography would be a better name for that) it is for
the living questions of Marxism and the revolution.  Even Chou En-lai, no
mean Marxist and true revolutionary leader, had this to say, not on the
question of Spain or the Second World War, but on the Great French
Revolution (1789) when asked about its historical significance:  "It is to
early to tell".

How much more is this true with the question of Stalin's role in those events.
In the mean time, Marxism judges historical trends, great class
confrontations and overall results, and from Stalin's stewardhip of the
proletarian movement, a great socialist camp arose, People's China became a
reality, Eastern Europe had people's democracies.  That is the provisional
balance of history.  That is what Proyect would not dare debate, the
contrast between the proletarian movement's achievements in Stalin's times
as compared to the non-achievements of the Trotskyst movement anywhere,
except as prize snitches and scabs, like Hugo Blanco.

Hey, that's a subject to debate, I wonder what Proyect knows about the role
of Hugo Blanco in selling off the peasant struggle in Peru?  So, if he wants
to debate, that is my choice of gun!

And he should consider himself lucky, I could have chosen to debate
AZCUETA's role in the class struggle today in Peru.  After all, I am as much
a comrade of Stalin, as Proyect is of AZCUETA, his "fellow leftist".

OK douggie, tell your MASTERS VOICE, that when he is ready, mail me direct
and let's have that one out in private, and then we can post the whole
record in one go to both lists when is finished! So it would really be mano
a mano!  Alright? Here, in this list, we have more important things to do
than bother with ghosts from the past!

Acording to the rules, the person challenged to a duel, has the choice of guns!

I already made mine!.

Adolfo Olaechea

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