separate M1 and M2

Hugh Rodwell m-14970 at
Fri Apr 5 04:20:40 MST 1996

Lisa writes:

>I've been thinking, and talking with Spoon, and I suggest that M1 and
>M2 are separate lists and should be treated that way.  Therefore, no
>cross-posting between M1 and M2.  Well, sure, some small
>announcements of general interest perhaps, but not duplicate
>conversations.  That would sort of negate the creation of _another_
>list, wouldn't it?
>Any reasonable persuasive objections?  I suggest one day comment
>period before technical backup may be implemented if needed.

a) This seems to indicate that the motives behind the new list had nothing
to do with content. They are more and more being exposed as purely
organizational, if not merely personal.

b) I still haven't seen a declaration of the character of the list/s that
distinguishes them in relation to Marxism and its discussion. I don't think
I ever will.

c) The question boils down to the nature of the sanctions to be invoked.
Will an explicitly critical attitude to the artificial distinctions being
instituted with respect to the discussion of Marxism lead to exclusion?

d) Will a desire to pursue a discussion relevant to M1 and M2
simultaneously in both forums lead to exclusion? For instance in relation
to Marxist aspects of the value theory, national liberation and
imperialism, working-class consciousness and organization.

e) Sectarianism has been mentioned as a problem. Will we be given a
definition, or allowed to discuss a definition, before the concept is
invoked to exclude people?

f) Why should M2 participants be bothered if the same discussion is being
carried on in M1? Out of sight, out of mind, surely! If M1 as a forum is
distasteful and irrelevant, why should anyone on M2 even *care* if some
parts of a discussion are mirrored on M1?

g) For instance, say I want to discuss aspects of imperialism in relation
to the collapse of Stalinism in the workers' states. I want the opinions of
people who are engaged in discussing Marxism. Some prefer M2 as a forum,
some prefer M1. So do I decide to exclude those potentially interested in
the other list by making an arbitrary decision to pursue the discussion on
one list only? This strikes me as Byzantine.

h) For my own part I've added brief statements concerning the relevance of
some postings for M2. No one else has that I've seen, although the lack of
clarity concerning what's relevant or not for M2 would make it a reasonably
empirical way of getting closer to the character of this new list.

So. There you have a few objections. I think they're reasonable and
persuasive, and raise some important issues of principle.

Lisa's in a *big* hurry. I think she's guillotining the discussion. But
that's apparently her privilege as a member of Spoons. She who pays the
piper calls the tune, right?

For an open, democratic, principled discussion of Marxism!



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