Joseph Koenigsman jokoe at
Wed Apr 24 22:23:59 MDT 1996

From: Joe Koenigsman [jokoe at], North Dakota
> >On 4/17/96, Brian Carnell wrote:
> >
> >>And don't forget Lenin, Stalin and Mao.  Are you really proud to be in
> >>the ranks of the Christian missionaries?  Is an Inquisition any better
> >>because it's done in the name of the people rather than in the name of
> >>Jesus?
> >
> > Doug answered:
> >
> >>Just because some people have committed murder in Marx's name, and in
> >>the name of the masses, doesn't let capitalism off the hook. Capitalism is
> >>a system founded on expropriation and murder, and one that lives on
> >>exploitation and lies. That's why we hate it, comrade Brian.
> >
> >Brian Carnell returned answer:
> >
> >>Here you would be wrong, Doug.  I have read a lot more of the
> >>anti-imperialist literature than the anti-Lenin/Mao stuff.
> *****************************************************************
Comrade Carnell,
  If we must bow to your claim that Josef Vissarionovich Stalin
committed murders, it would be appropriate for you to provide
information, and sources, relative to the murders he committed.
I'm sure a person of your knowledge and background could assist
us in this area.
  But, don't bother to tell us, all these murders occurred during
the 70 year period when Russia was under a communist government.
We'd need more specifics, if we're to assign Josef Vissarionovich
to a place in hell with Adolph Hitler!
  And, don't cite that mass murders occured during the "great
purges" of the 30's. We know, when Stalin's assistant Sergei
Mironovich Kirov was murdered in 1934, a number of high ranking
communist party officials were implicated in a plot, to overthrow
Stalin, and bring Trotsky to power in Russia. We know Grigori
Evseyevich Zinoviev; Lev Borisovich Kamenev, Trotsky's brother-
in-law; Aleksey Rykov; Nikolai Ivanovich Bukharin; C.C.Yagoda; and,
Mikhail Nikolayevich Toukhachevsky  were tried, found guilty by
confession, and were executed, in what history calls the great
"purge trial." While you might choose to blame Stalin for these
executions, you can't really call them mass murder, as you like to
  We know, as result of the trial, many lesser officials in the
Russian government, and army were arrested, tried, and sent to
Siberia because, they were supporters of the Trotsky plot to seize
the Russian government. But, sending these dissidents to Siberia,
can't be called mass murder.
  Siberia wasn't a nice place, but it's the same place, the
czars, sent everyone they didn't like. Hell, even Trotsky spent
time in Siberia but, he was sent there by Czar Nicholas, not by
Stalin. Granted, people died in Siberia, but they weren't murdered
by Stalin. He didn't pardon them, for supporting overthrow of the
Russian government, but he certainly didn't murder them.
  As for hardship in Siberia, when Hitler attacked Russia, Soviet
recruiters went to Siberia for volunteers in World War II to protect
Russia. They got so many volunteers, it was mind boggling. The
entire Russian 13th Corps of 25,000 men, was comprised of dissident
volunteers from Siberia, many of whom were sent there during the so
called purge. And, for your information, when they went into battle,
against the Germans, the entire Russian 13th Corps defected; put on
NAZI uniforms and fought against Russia. And, after defecting to the
NAZIs, these dissident 13th Corps Siberian volunteers, drafted
thousands of young Ukrainians into the NAZI army to fight against
  Brian, it would help if you'd cite a list of names of individuals,
who Josef Vissarionovich Stalin specifically murdered. Or, how about
producing evidence of dates, and orders, Stalin gave to have people
murdered. He certainly didn't build death camps like Hitler did. And,
the Soviet government didn't create a holocaust, like the NAZIs did.
And, during World War II, Stalin and Russia were our allies.
  So, how come people like you are touting, that Stalin was worse than
Hitler, and that Stalin killed 12 to 20 million people when in power?
Statistically, this is impossible. With only 12 million, which I've
been hearing, Stalin would've had to kill, one person every minute he
was in power for 28 years. And, that's 24 hours a day.
  You indicate, you've read a lot of literature about Stalin, Russia,
and what happened. I'm sure you did, but I'm also sure, what you read,
and believe is a lot of propaganda. You can call me a Stalin apologist,
if you wish, but I don't subscribe to propaganda bull s-it!

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