Robert Malecki malecki at algonet.se
Sun Aug 4 03:32:35 MDT 1996

Hans writes;

>I have come to the conclusion that it is a good thing that we have two
>lists.  M1 is wild, and not everyone has the time or the motivation
>(or the money, for those who have to pay for the volume of mail they
>receive), to trek through the wilderness every day.  This does not
>necessarily make them less committed to our common cause.  For those
>who need to take a break, I recommend that you try out M2.  Many
>people are subscribed to both. (This includes you, Hugh; I just saw
>your message with the pink egg-shells when I did the archive last
>night, and I liked it.)  Subscribing to both lists is a good strategy
>if you don't want to miss anything.  I personally recommend that
>everyone on M1 who can stomach M2 also subscribe to M2.  Subscription
>to M2 is now automatic.  You may be expelled if you post things that
>deviate from the declared purpose of M2.  This expulsion is not
>permanent, after 2 weeks you may get back in.  Neither M1 nor M2 is

Your arguementation about two lists being a good thing has nothing to do
with *how* the two lists were created! In fact what happened was an attempt
to gag people on M1 and when failing went on to build M2 and gag people. In
fact this is the reality of the two lists.

Hans, you are trying to cover up this morbid history. And in fact people who
fought against this are still banned from M2! The special rules not to
discuss how M2 was created on pain of expulsion still exist! And basically
your arguements is a sort of scabbing on those who in a principled way
fought against the Ivory Tower and its coup de tat at Jefferson Village. If
you really wanted to recommend something, how about a condemnation of the
*actions* of the Elegant Baroness and her lackies on M2 for the incredioble
way they acted to create the list. Hidding it under the bed is in fact
supporting a list which is both undemocratic and can not even allow
discussion on the lists creation.
>Lisa does not like to play the bully.  She has been sacrificing her
>nerves for the sake of the peace on M2.  She also has been favoring a
>rapprochement between the two lists.  The fact that she participates
>in M1 is proof.  M2 is mentioning M1 in its info sheet.  I promised
>her to put a mention of M2 into our info sheet as well, but I have not
>yet gotten around to it.

The elegant Baroness von Lisa was one of the leaders of the coup de tat
actions that led to the creation of M2. She is also one of the people if not
leader of the creation of the special rules which bans discussion on the
creation of M2 on pain of expulsion. Stop trying to paint the lady as some
poor little creature who is trying so hard for reproachment. She has not
even had the nerve to stand up and say why Malecki and Boddi are still
banned from the list that they were secretly thrown off with no trial other
then an exchange of private Email between Lisa and her lackies who run the
list. You are acting like a scab or crony to this gang who have acted in a
very unprincipled way in order to decide what should be discussed here at
Jefferson Village. First here on M1 and then M2 after they abruptly walked
out and created a new list M2, with special rules, and a big sign which
reads; "Working Class Don,t Bother"...

>Let me end by saying that I am *very* committed to the openness and
>the continued existence and viability of M1.  To me it is not a
>"sociological experiment".  The freedom of expression which we
>experience on M1 must be an ingredient of any socialist movement.  It
>often leads to unexpected and astounding results.  There will be other
>Marxist mailing lists in the future, but M1 has a function to perform and
>it is here to stay.

Nice to here that you defend M1 because it is and open list! But then on the
other hand your covering up the crimes of the elegant Baroness and her
cohorts when creating M2 is nothing other then a cowardly criminal act on
your part Hans.

Actually as list moderator you should be calling for a public apology from
the M2 in the way the list was created, an end to the rule of the special
rule of forbidding a discussion on how the list was created, and finally not
recommend anybody to join the list until they publically take back the
expulsions of people who fought against their undemocratic practices. Hugh,
Malecki, Bodi, and Karl who recently was banned for raising list questions
on M2...

Warm Regards
Robert Malecki

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