malecki at algonet.se
Tue Aug 27 00:26:53 MDT 1996
>Now, the only thing I agree on really is the benefit an intro-list might
>bring. Throwing people in at the deep end isn't too useful for teaching
>them to swim, especially not if the pool's full of crocodiles, sharks and
>leeches, and parts of it are choked up by waterweeds.
>As for the other divisions, look at Marx himself, or Lenin.
>Point one. We need, as Zeynep reaffirmed (was it here or elsewhere?) one
>list that's a free-for-all, uncensored but moderated much the same as m1 is
>now. Perhaps, if we want a label we could call it Marxism-General. In the
>New Zealand net hierarchy, for instance, nz.general (a lovely group) has
>much the same function, and is cheerfully characterized by the bloke who
>characterizes the nz newsgroups in an FAQ as 'the cesspool of the
>hierarchy'. In other words, organic, living, vibrant!
>Point two. For those who feel the need, perhaps there should be some more
>cloistered precinct called Marxism-Theory.
>I take it for granted that all subscribers interested in praxis will
>automatically gravitate to M-general, including party polemics, labour
>movement threads, political and international events seen within a Marxist
>Any further narrowing down of topics I would regard as an attempt to
>establish a personal salon, a drawing-room community, that I regard as
>repugnant to the spirit of Marx or any of the great Marxist
>revolutionaries. Not that I wouldn't subscribe if such a thing were set up
>(if they'd have me), but given the choice, I wouldn't set it up, I wouldn't
>advise it and I'd vote against it.
>Someone proposed (was it Hans in a reference to suggestions?) a kind of
>super-list, organized by keywords so that special interests can more
>easily be traced. This is a very good idea if it can be made to work, maybe
>more for the archives now than the actual forum of discussion.
>As for the rules, they should be as flexible as possible, and we should
>dump the rigid stand on cross-posting that's gutted m2. No expulsions,
>except in extreme cases (and I mean *extreme*, like Nazis butting in and
>putting people on hitlists, or *proven* police spies). The usual problems
>of talking too much or too loud or too loony or farting in church can be
>dealt with by those who take offence using the delete key or kill files.
>By the way I don't think we the administrative authority necessary to make
>Zeynep's proposals on voting procedures etc for unsubbing a workable
>proposition. Without administrative authority they'd just become a rickety
I tend to agree with most of what Hugh writes above. However I think that
the whole discussion on "reforming" the lists has the bottom line of
exclusion. It is a repeat performance of the creation of the M2 list,
however this time in order to stop the M1 list. Some of the more extreme
bureaucrats are wringing their hands in glee over the possibility of a
future of one "big" moderated list and a little unmoderated list. I doubt
it. In fact the unmoderated list (other then facists and cop provacateurs)
will be superieror to any moderated lists the ivory tower and their new
followers of Mensheviks, Liberals and Stalinists will create and just won,t
work in the long run.
The only agreement at present is to try and exclude certain people from
intervening in the discussion by building moderated lists where they
themselves will decide who stays and who goes..And looking at the recent
attacks and politics of those who are the potential moderators in the new
order of things it is quite clear who will not be allowed to present their
views on the list.
Once again I defend the M1 list or a new public list along the same lines
against the attacks of the present majority of ivory tower
people,liberals,Mensheviks and Stalinists who are trying to smash the public
forum that M1 has represented.
And remember Internet is a big place and the present majority goes now to
far thefore I will once again have to go public in order to try and stop
those who will destroy the traditions that M1 has represented as a forum for
people to present their views..
And believe it or not there are and awful lot of people out there on-line
who are pretty well informed in the histories of some of the leading
elements of the present attempts to gag public forums..
I suggest, if neccessary, a United Front of all those on the list who have
been named for execution by the present majority of spokesman who in the
name of "marxism" are trying to destroy the public forum M1 has represented
by creating many moderated lists with themselves as moderators...
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