Fwd: Godena, a man not a mouse

CEP iwp.ilo at ix.netcom.com
Sun Feb 18 15:44:40 MST 1996


You(Charlotte) wrote:
e. If you disagree with the PCP, at least
>take this--they are very feminist-oriented and are often led by women
>combatants, like Edith Lagos. Look at the New Flag and you will seee
>*numerous* references to female PCP leaders. Louis is an ardent
supporter of
>the PCP and their policies, especially on women, so he has great
respect for
>revolutionary women.

    Carlos:

    Uhmmmm .... Charlotte is coming out of the closet little by little.
    Now the PCP is "very feminist-oriented" because they have
    "combatants" who are women and "leaders"?  Is that your concept of
    feminism, Charlotte?  Any organizations with women's leaders is
    a feminist organization?  Does that includes the Conservative Party
    of britain under Madam "Iron" Thatcher? O Madam's Bhutho's
    organization?  Strange ...  You should know, Charlotte, that the
    rump of Godenas bunch is *against* feminism of all sorts,
    explicitly, actively, both in writting and in practice.

    Moreover, how do you call, Charlotte, an organization which kill
    left women? A feminist-killer tomato?  We know that you are a
    friend of Louis "we'll take care of you" Godenas.  We do know that
    you even go so far as to try to construct a thread with him about
    other issues.  But you should know that the outstanding issue of
    assasinations  of other leftists is still outstanding ... can run
    but cannot hide.  A simple statement, a simple "yes" or "no" will
       suffice:

    Charlotte, do you believe that your political opponents in the
    left, like myself for example, should be accussed as a
    "provocateur", a "CIA" operative, an agent of american imperialism
    and then be killed without a possibility of defense,
    without due process ...?  That's where PCP and Godenas and Quispe
    stands.  Where do you stand on the issue?

    I do know, Charlotte that you had been confronted by others on the
    same issue.  And you'll be confronted with the same question again
    and again, no matter where you go. Please, answer.

    Comradely (There is no possibility of being confused with you)

    Carlos








>
>Louis:Are you a "man's man" yourself? Are you the sort of guy who
yells at
>his
>kid when he strikes out at a Little-League game? When your wife steps
out
>of line, do you set her straight the way other workers do? Could you
send
>me a photograph of yourself? Perhaps it would give me some tips on how
to
>get over my "mousey" demeanor, you macho thing, you.
> >>
>
>Obviously, you know nothing about Louis G. and his family. Nothing.
None of
>this above is even remotely true. Nowhere near it. So stick to things
you
>know about and quit making slanderous accusations that are so far off
of the
>mark. This isn't funny. It's a bunch of lies about Louis and his
family. So
>lay off, Louis. Make a political criticism, but stay away from this.
Louis
>isn't "macho" and he is certainly neither oppressive or violent. Stop
lying
>Louis (Proyect). You should really know better than this.
>
>Charlotte
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------
>Forwarded message:
>Subj:    Re: Godena, a man not a mouse
>Date:    96-02-18 16:44:49 EST
>From:    CKates
>To:      lnp3 at columbia.edu(louisnproyect)
>
>In a message dated 96-02-18 13:48:15 EST, you write:
>
><< Louis: What about sports, Godena? Since workers love their sports,
I think
>
>the ideal people's candidate should be an ex-professional athlete like
Jack
>Kemp. Furthermove, by highlighting the "mousiness" question, you've
really
>shown the acuity of your Marxist understanding. Isn't this is what
lost
>Dukakis the election? What a mouse he was. The left needs candidates
like
>Reagan. Remember when he was photographed chopping wood? That won a
lot of
>working-class votes. Workers look up to muscular men, don't they.
>
>Charlotte: Now, you should know that Louis is not talking about
"manliness"
>here. He's talking about the tepid views and struggles of the above.
>
>Louis:What a breakthrough in Marxist thought you are making, Godena.
Could
>you
>possibly refer us some titles that helped you in formulating these new

>ideas? You were kind enough to mail me a Shining Path pamphlet.
Perhaps
>you can send me some pamphlets on how to achieve the proper level of
>"manliness", since I myself am one of those unpatriotic, mousey sorts.
I
>am also a Jew like that other enemy of the working class, L.
Bronstein. I
>also bear a certain resemblance to the Jew Woody Allen. I am afraid
this
>might get in the way of my efforts to build a socialist movement
nationally.
>Should I stay in Manhattan, where there are other "unmanly" types?
>
>Charlotte: Louis G. is *not a misogynist*. I know him. I also know
that he is
>*not an anti-Semite.* He meant nothing antiSemitic by the use of
Trotsky's
>original name--it means the same as saying Ulyanov, Dzjugashvili,
Guzman, or
>anyone elses original name. I have seen all of the above used,
especially
>Guzman for Chairman Gonzalo. The latter is his nom de revolution, but
no one
>is incensed by the use of Manuel Abimael Guzman Reinoso. The reference
to
>"mousiness" had nothing, zip, zilch, nada, to do with "manliness". It
had to
>do with their character for struggle. If you disagree with the PCP, at
least
>take this--they are very feminist-oriented and are often led by women
>combatants, like Edith Lagos. Look at the New Flag and you will seee
>*numerous* references to female PCP leaders. Louis is an ardent
supporter of
>the PCP and their policies, especially on women, so he has great
respect for
>revolutionary women.
>
>Louis:Are you a "man's man" yourself? Are you the sort of guy who
yells at
>his
>kid when he strikes out at a Little-League game? When your wife steps
out
>of line, do you set her straight the way other workers do? Could you
send
>me a photograph of yourself? Perhaps it would give me some tips on how
to
>get over my "mousey" demeanor, you macho thing, you.
> >>
>
>Obviously, you know nothing about Louis G. and his family. Nothing.
None of
>this above is even remotely true. Nowhere near it. So stick to things
you
>know about and quit making slanderous accusations that are so far off
of the
>mark. This isn't funny. It's a bunch of lies about Louis and his
family. So
>lay off, Louis. Make a political criticism, but stay away from this.
Louis
>isn't "macho" and he is certainly neither oppressive or violent. Stop
lying
>Louis (Proyect). You should really know better than this.
>
>Charlotte
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>



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