Degenerated workers state= degenerated anti-marxist analysis

Spoon Collective spoons at jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU
Tue Jun 18 10:16:08 MDT 1996

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: 17 Jun 96 23:11:56 EDT
From: neil <74742.1651 at CompuServe.COM>
To: Marxism list-e-mail <marxism at>
Cc: jack and sarah ailey <73613.516 at CompuServe.COM>,
    Ray hickman <r-hickman at>,
    "J.S.Daborn" <J.S.Daborn at>, Mauro <Mauro.jr at>,
    curtis price <cansv at>
Subject: Degenerated workers state= degenerated anti-marxist analysis

Dear friends,

Let the debate on state capitalism vs. workers rule in ex-USSR, E. europe, etc

Don't let the workers staters put up their confusions and smokescreen without
Not only has history itself proven their line absurd and untenable. Now
hankering for a return to  the "good ole days" of "degenerated workers states"
in Ex USSR bloc, Yugo, Albania, etc. can only serve to further discredit Marxism
in the eyes of coming up new generation of militants.

Force the issue to even ground . THE issue is the the underlying ECONOMIC BASE
of these societies political superstructures.

State Capitalism is a description of  the economy, so at least we are in the

Degenerated workers states, petty bourgeois states, bureaucratic state
 etc. are descriptions of the political superstructures of states. THis is a
bourgeoipolitical scientists approach to dealing with societal analysis, it is
NOT marxism.

Also for those who hold to the old bankrupt workers stater dogmas. Uhh, ladies
and gentlemen in this crowd, if your views are correct , did you realize that
Marx and Engels and Lenins  views in historical materialism for societal
developement would also have to be seriouly reconstructed to make due for your

I am never one to say that  M-E-Ls views dont need to be updated. Heaven knows i
have argued for this in various forums for years (on the question of
nationalism, trade unionism , elections, etc.). I am saying you have to realize
Qualitative changes to Marxist world view  your trend still  promotes
and for it to jive as marxism it has to mesh with basic underpinnings of Marxian
scientific analysis of social developement and change.

This is where the state capitalist analysis towers over the metaphysics and
eclectic  and pragmatic  analytical methods  of workers staters.

The best studies on the state caps are , I think
Trotskyist mavericks LRP
THE LIFE AND DEATH OF STALINISM, LRP, NY.  contact Mr. Daum on this list
for this

REVOLUTIONARY PERSPECTIVES  (old series) Communist Workers Org.
Box 338, Sheffield S3 9YX, UK

The workers staters are stuck with the field of the Sparts , Mandelism, Jack
Barnes Sam Marcy  and Gus Hall  in the post parade with Malecki, Proyect, and
providing outrider services.
I would not bet the farm on this bunch!!


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