upheavals in England, 1640 - 1848
adam at pmel.com
Wed Jun 19 02:16:25 MDT 1996
> >By the end of this post Rahul manages to realise that there have been some
> >anti Imperialist English people, even though he has to go back to William
> >Blake !
> >If we transfer the argument to today's dominant Imperialism, the US, similar
> >sentiments as Gary's + Rahul's are used to write off the possibility of
> >socialist revolution in the US. And it seems to me that if you do that,
> >you write off the possibility of socialism altogether.
> Come off it, Adam. I even think you're anti-imperialist. It's just
> presumptuous as hell for you English leftists to tell us Indians and Irish
> that all is forgiven, don't you think?
Who said anything about forgiving ?
The various horrific crimes, or perhaps more correctly systematic ciminality,
or the British ruling class, are unforgivable. But my point is that the
British ( I deliberately say British, mainly to include the Scottish
Bourgeoisie, who were enthusiastic partners ) ruling class has always faced
an anti Imperialist opposition. Of course some workers swallowed all the
Imperialist crap - but there has always been a significant strand of working
class anti Imperialism as well.
I, and these past anti Imperialists, have nothing to apologise for though - the
crimes committed by our ruling class were crimes committed by our deadly enemies
against our sisters and brothers.
> I don't hate any people in itself, not even the English or Americans, but
> it's too easy to say that the evils of Anglo-American imperialism are
> solely due to the ruling class, without considering how exactly it is that
> the ruling class can yank everybody else around. There are certain traits
> fairly widespread in these nations that contributed to their bloody rule,
> and that I hate unequivocally.
And what does this mean : "There are certain traits fairly widespread in these
nations that contributed to their bloody rule" ? What, national character traits ?
The criminals committed their crimes against British workers, as well as people's
across the world. The arch Imperialist Winston Churchill made his name politically
by SHOOTING Welsh miners.
> I didn't make any arguments about the possibility of socialist revolution
> anywhere. I can't imagine how you got that out of what I said.
I think you subscribe to something like Lenin's theory of the Labour aristocracy,
or something similar. Am I wrong ?
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