Reply to M2 questions
malecki at algonet.se
Fri May 24 13:05:43 MDT 1996
tallpaul at nyc.pipeline.com(tallpaul) wrote:
What? M2 begins to squirm...
>1) Where and when did M2 ever state that "working class kids [are] not
Well, that is a fairly easy question. Just about everytime the "marxists" on
M2 which are called both the ivory tower and the pond, opened their mouths.
Not only did you attack people but you threatened people with expulsion. The
working class polemics and the style of the PCP people upset you to the
point that you threatened with expulsion because the list was being
destroyed bu such crude polemics.
>2) How, if the M2 list was created *after* an "attempt to expel the PCP
>peruvians in a bureautic way" does such an alledged expulsion attempt
>reflect on M2?
The people that withdrew to establish M2 were the very same people that
tried do expel the PCP people in M1. In fact their was quite a lot of
documentation on just this. It was directly connected.
>3) On what basis and with what data does he conclude that the forces he
>calls the "PCP Peruvians" relect the official views/membership of the PCP?
Goood question. All of us wonder in fact who the real PCP is? But that is
not the point. The point was that the people on M1 were defending the
Peruvian revolution and posting not only polemics but dozens of documents
>from the PCP. Many of Gonzalos speeches and the rest. This is why i give
them the title of the PCP people. However, there is a big fight going on
about just who are the real PCP?
>4) Who was tried at the first "secret trial" on M2? Who was tried at the
>second "secret trial?" And how many other "secret trials" on M2 does he
>know about. On what basis and with what data does he conclude that there
>were any "secret trials" at all?
I will not give names here on this list. However i was personally taken off
the list without my knowledge. Somebody obviously made some sort of decision
behind my back without any discussion. And Whoops i was off the list. That
is a secret trial and a secret execution. My assumption is that my polemics
on m2 , about the way it was formed was the reason for this execution. Of
course i can,t really know because you people did this secretly without
informing anybody. And i know there were others who were dumped from M2.
And even others who were allowed to stay on the list although they had the
same line as myself on the very creation of the list. Although his polemics
were much more polished.
A good example of this would be me calling you a lump of shit. Where the
more polished intellectual would say, your excretionary example or something
along those lines. M2 has and anti worker-petty bougeois approach to real
workers..You have been sitting in the ivory tower to long to even realise it..
>5) Who was first "executed?" Who was the victim of the second "execution?"
>And how many other "executions" related to M2 does he know about? On what
>basis and with what data does he conclude that people were murdered
>relating to activities by M2?
>6) M2 is a discussion list, not a well-defined political organization.
>Consequently, who are the individuals or political organizations (or both)
>that he refers to as "they?"
Well, this is your definition of what M2 is. In fact the same discussion has
been going on in M1. My personal point of view is that the Internet is not
some little cyberspace world where intellectuals can hide away in their
little corners and discuss. Naturally i defend there right to do that. But
it is a meeting place for struggle whether in the marxist list or on the
news groups. Class struggle is not some fucking intellectual game where
computer freaks and fake marxists can go around pranting a lot of crap
without expecting struggle. This forum is just another forum where real
classes and class struggle exist..
Why do you thing i am out here. Not to play games and do intellectual hat
tricks. I want to reach as many working class people i can and talk to them
about changing our situation. The M2 people are sitting around discussing
Hegel, the Roman empire and a lot of other stuff. Fine, i defend your right
to be boring and talk about things that poor and working class people do not
even really give a shit about.
But that is the reason for the very sharp clash between the ivory tower and
myself. But you people had the power to give me a secret trial and delete me
>from the list without even telling me. You put a knife in the back of a
working class guy who was fighting for his ideas. You did it in a
bureaucratic and secret way. That is the style of petty bourgeois
intellectuals on M2. A real worker shows up on the list and a bunch of
maoists talking about armed struggle and you go insane.
The Red Flag people on M1 know that it was i who defended there right to
struggle for their line. And in fact i think that they realise that Internet
is not just a fucking game like you my friend so ask them..
>7) Would he quote the exact wording of the "main rule" on m2 forbids people
>to "discuss how the list was created?" Failing this, on what basis and with
>what data does he conclude that such a rule forbidding this discussion
>exists and that it is the "main" one?
The rule was posted by one of the Internationalists who decided to resub to
M2. I told him that basically he crossed a class line when doing so. It was
an act of political cowardness. However he has the same line as you. This is
just a discussion group. How quaint that you people do not realise even what
Clinton and the Pope realise. That the Internet is a weapon that must be
controled. Our "marxist" are playing patty cake in the sandbox while the
International bougeoisie is gatherings its forces to gag internet. Do you
really think it is a game, a discussion list, we are talking about here?
Well, i don,t..In fact, i think your people should come out of your little
ivory tower and deal with the real life that exists on the Net. Believe me,
just take a look at some odf the discussions going on out here. They are
real. And will also mean action at some point..But you tea totaling
intellectuals haven,t figured that out yet..
>In a yet earlier post on May 19, Malecki made a number of additional
>assertions about M2. Relating to these:
>8) He maintains that the M2 list was created by a "kangaroo court" and
>"cops." Who were the members of the court and how can a court create a
>list? Who are the police that he mentions? Why, if he wishes to get cops
>"off the internet" is he posting to alt.politics.socialism.trotsky instead
>of to the groups on the net who have an ongoing and open police presence?
Exactly! Secret trials and secret executions of people who refused to accept
the M2 and its bureaucratic manuvers to be off with the maoists. The reason
i post to the groups in question. Is simple. I do not call on the real
police to deal with fake marxists. Real marxists do not call on the cops to
intervene in the workers movement. In your ivory tower you do not even
understand that. But when we were kids and my step father worked on the
docks. Everytime there was a strike, the cops was always on the side of the
bosses. And they are!
>9) As above, on what basis and with what data does he conclude that M2
>holds "secret trials" and "secret executions?"
Somebody decided to axe me! You tell me who the judge and jury were?Or is it
collective guilt. For me i hold the M2 responsible for the secret trial and
execution of myself from the list. I certainly didn,t do it..
The rest of the letter is devoted to the PCP people and how horrible they
treated the ivory tower . Although i do not agree with the PCP because of
their Menshevik line of multi class struggle and many other things.
There is one think that i will not accept. They really believe what they are
saying. For them it is not a tea party at M1 or M2. It is a struggle! And
they are right about that. It is a deadly struggle and they are reminded of
that every time they pick up a newspaper from Lima. !000s of there members
are rotting in filthy prisons, there leader is captured and in jail. People
are fighting and dying in struggle on a daily basis. So they know that the
Internet is not just some fucking game for petty bougeois intellectuals.
And i sympathise with them when they struggle against imperialism. I also
know what it is to starve. I also know what war is about. I also know that
millions of people in American and elsewhere are dying everyday because of
the present system and you think that this is just a discussion list.
Good luck my friend. Sit on your ass and play the lofty intellectual asshole
who tries to turn a trick over my formulations of murder. You are guilty of
murdering me from the list. And you attitude about discussion lists and
having a quaint little tea party in cyber space while people are dying just
makes me want to puke.
Boycott the Marxist list at jefferson village!
For Free speech on the Internet..
Fopr Workers Democracy on the Marxist list..
No to secret trials and executions..
No to bureaucratic juggling of lists..
And finally something personal from me to you my little ivory tower flower.
Fuck off or apoligise...
malecki in exile
Read the book! Ha Ha Ha McNamara,Vietnam-My Bellybutton is my
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