malecki at algonet.se
Thu May 30 12:19:25 MDT 1996
knaife at aol.com (Knaife) wrote:
>"to execute" means to unsubscribe one from the list, so they can no longer
>post or receive posts from the whole list. All posts are still publically
>archived for anyone to read.
Finally the "official" (?) version of the marxist list at jefferson
village... I find it very interesting and therefore it deserves a reply.
>"to gag" some one is to not want to hear hir speak against the very
>existence of the list over and over and over ...
This is really not true. Malecki never was against a new list. Malecki was
against how the list was created. In fact the list was created only after
the failure of those who tried to expel the maoists from the first list.
>to be "unprincipled" is to start up another list without Malecki's
>to "try to get rid of the maoists" is to say on the list that one wants
>them kicked off, not for being maoists but for some specific list
>behaviors. This never happened, however, nobody has ever been kicked off
>from "marxism the first" list. Some people just kept leaving. Some
>people started another list. Big deal.
What is quite interesting here is first the lie and then the real reason
that the new list was created. The only thing that was unprincipled was an
attempt by some of the list members to expel the maoists because they were
being disruptiv. Meaning that there polemics around just "maoism" were
destroying the list.. People were leaving and the arguement "I,m so tired of
pushing the delete button" were used as an accuse to in fact try to throw
the maoists off the list. Those who had a principles was just malecki and
another Internationalist on the list who clearly stated that any bureacratic
attempts to expell people from the list would be fought..It is not as the
above say "Big Deal".
Workers democracy is a basic principle! It is not something that a few fake
marxists can try and bypass because they do not like the particular polemics
of the maoist people..
>to "discuss the origins of the list" is to join the new list that one
>disapproves of and continue to repeat the lengthy denunciations that were
>already expressed on the older list. That is, the same thing that some
>people wanted to get away from.
After failing to expel the Maoists a new list was created yes. However it
would have been much simpler to say in the first place we are going to build
a new moderated list. No one can oppose that right. However this was not the
case. The list was built and the first rule was maoists not welcome. This
had nothing to do with a moderated list. But a deliberate attempt to
bureaucratically come around the failure to have them expeled from the old list.
>"secret trials" means a moderator made a decision that Malecki was trying
>to destroy the very purpose of the list, which was and is to have
>discussions about marxian related things, not to "discuss" the list and
>list history itself, overors facing each other with nothing of content in
The above is a interesting turn. The author says here that they wanted to
get around the fact that the new list was created to stop the maoist from
having a platform to speak on. Then to discuss the "marxism" that the little
cliche had decided that workers democracy and bureaucratic exclusion of
people from the new list was not a topic.
>Did the moderator make some debateable decisions and do things in a way
>that some of us didn't like? Sure, but most of us stayed because we
>_want_ a moderated list! Besides, when you're up to your ass in
>alligators, just learning the technicalities of running a list and having
>a few mean-spirited obsessive hangers-on from the old list just joining to
>harass us all, it might be nice to cut a moderator a little slack.
Here the author even admits that things were done in a bad way! But the
author solution is to support the bad ways and hang malecki so that the
moderator who was one of the people who led the attack on free speech gets a
little slack to finish the crime.. Under the deguise of technicalities we
have a little click that decides what is and what is not to be dicussed.
>Anyway, within a couple of weeks, we got hir to make a clear written
>policy that everybody gets in the info sheet when they sign up. The
>policy was also announced on the list at the time a couple of times, so
>Malecki knew he was breaking the rules when he did it. I thought it was
>obvious that he wanted to get kicked off!
After a few weeks the new rules were drawn up to pass the original reason to
build the group. To exclude the maoists and any other disruptive elements
who the group thought would hinder their "marxist" disskussions. And
according to the author Malecki "should" have known he was breaking the
rules and that made it obvious that he wanted to get kicked off.
was it ever obvious to the writter of the above that Malecki thought and
said that you people were acting in and unprincipled and undemocratic
fashion in creating the list in the first place in order to stop the
maoists. And what was so obvious to the author was in fact never even
mentioned to malecki. But all of a sudden i was off the list. No warning, no
discussion at least with me. So obviously someone took me off the list...
>And even then the evil moderator, the Baronness cackling in the torture
>chamber, said that "execution" was only temporary, and if anybody wanted
>to come back, all they had to do was say the magic words "I can live with
>the policies of this list" and POOF they would be resurrected. One of the
>undead has in fact done this. Hse just had to push it to the limit to see
>what it would take to get the moderator to use that axe, and then decided
>hse wanted to talk to people on marxism2 after all and could drop the
>hassling and pestering about trying to make every possible rule be spelled
So it was the Baroness and political opponent to Malecki on just about
everything that held in the axe. And it was the Baroness that also started
the list without any real decision. And it was also some of here friends in
the ivory tower that supported this strange behavior. And now the author
claims it "was only temporary". So obviouly there are a number of decisions
that have been made around the malecki case without malecki ever being
And then the author holds out the olive branch. "and if anybody wanted to
come back". That is extrodinary! First they secretly throw people off there
list that they admit was disrupting the list by discussing how the list was
created. They admit all that and then put out and olive branch. And then go
on to say that "he had pushed the moderator to the limit to see what it
would be like to get the moderator to use that axe".. Not bad for defending
workers democracy i was pushing the moderated to use her axe...
And then try to put the blame on me for "trying to make every possible rule
be spelled out". In other words i forced them to make a rule for forbidding
discussion of how the list was created! WoW
>Most of us on marxism2 don't need any rules at all. It was only a few
>people like Malecki that forced us to make some up.
Most of the people on M2 don,t need rules. What they need is to *make* rules
which enforces their ideas of how the new list should work!No maoists
polemics, no workers who discuss how the list was created.
What and decide who needs rules and who does not. Obviously the author means
that tey don,t need rules it is just malecki who talked about the rotten way
the list was built who needs it spelled out for him. Those dumb working
class kids just don,t understand anything. Right?
>I know a lot of lists that are a lot more private and closed and
>unadvertized, even some where members all promise to not even reveal its
>existence, just because of the psychos loose on the net, who can't find
>anything more useful (forward the real revolution!) than just acting like
As i have said earlier. I have never been against building moderated
discussion lists on the net or on the marxist list for that matter. What i
am against is bureaucratic attempts to gag people on one list and when
failing creating a new list to gag just those very same people. If you had
declared from the very beginning that "we are building a moderated list". It
would have been just fine. This was hardly the case and the author openly
admits this here.
So in reality the marxist list and The elegant Baroness and her followers
owe malecki and apoligy. They also should openly say we did this in a rotten
an bureacratic way. Trying to stop the maoists. OK we were wrong! A simple
statement saying what you have already admitted in your above version of the
>I think Malecki did contribute to creating this whole stupid storm in a
>teakettle, but not for calculated gain. It's just the way Bob is.
And finally he says that malecki was part of the problem. True when a whole
bunch od people come into a room and start interacting we are problems And
you are right. I acted on what i believed was a principled manner in the
style which i can not change. Because tht is the way bob is.
So why not come out and admit that the elegant Baroness and her friends
handled it very badly. A simple statement.
Boycott the Marxist list at Jefferson village...
Malecki in exile
Read the book! Ha Ha Ha McNamara,Vietnam-My Bellybutton is my
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