'armed strikes' and workers' democracy : notes of a liquidator
Rosser Jr, John Barkley
rosserjb at jmu.edu
Fri Oct 4 12:45:05 MDT 1996
I am sympathetic with parts of your argument, not with
others. I think it is unavoidable that innocent people
will get killed in any revolution, even that of the
relatively low key American one. That does not necessarily
mean that the revolution should be opposed, although one
certainly hopes that such deaths are minimized rather than
gotten into out of pure sectarianism and internal
factional power struggling justified after the fact.
As regards the case of Chiara, who you say may not
even exist, it remains a bit premature for you to declare
that he clearly must have been a class enemy. This could
have been a mistake or just plain wrong, even if the
larger cause can be justified and is gaining the genuine
support of the masses. All along my complaint about your
approach has been your propensity to simply assume that
anything done by whomever you support must be correct,
period, and that anybody raising questions about it must be
all kinds of things that you call lots of people on this
list on a very frequent basis.
BTW, do you have a response to what the _Revolutionary
History_ editor has had to say about Chiara?
On Fri, 4 Oct 1996 02:14:03 +0100 (BST) hariette spierings
<hariette at easynet.co.uk> wrote:
> > OK, fair enough. You don't know who this Chiara was.
> >I don't either. If you don't, then why are you so sure
> >that the decision to execute him was made fairly "by the
> >masses," if indeed he was executed by the PCP, or if indeed
> >he ever existed?
> > BTW, I remind you that I have always been very careful
> >to state the limits of my knowledge and the related depths
> >of my ignorance regarding Peruvian affairs. I don't know
> >what the facts are here, and apparently you don't either.
> >So, perhaps you should be a bit more careful about what you
> >say before you, as you frequently do, start lobbing all
> >kinds of accusations around.
> >Barkley Rosser
> >On Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:40:56 +0100 (BST) hariette spierings
> ><hariette at easynet.co.uk> wrote:
> >> >Adolfo,
> >> > Seriously, do you have a statement from one of your
> >> >generals about Chiara to validate the "decision of the
> >> >masses" regarding him?
> >> >
> >> Look Rosser - you give credence to the allegations of the Peruvian maleckis
> >> - political fleas who are only known in Maleckian-Trotskyst circles and have
> >> nothing but a couple of "Leftie Jehova's witnesses" posing as "militants" in
> >> Peru. Who this famous Chiara may be, I do not know.
> >> What I know is that the slander against the Peruvian revolution accussing it
> >> of "assassinating leftists" is a tactic in which the military high command
> >> uses SPECIFICALLY this kind of of Zubatov agents and informers posing as
> >> militants of the "left".
> >> Here is what General Sinecio Jarama said in his interview:
> >> "This is because many politicians have found it easy to speak of terrorism
> >> and not of armed rebellion. By doing so they can use the police and the
> >> Armed Forces and throw them in to destroy the terrorists. Finishing with
> >> the terrorists the problem is finished. But, are things really like that in
> >> Peru? No.
> >> I am going to tell you something. We are interested, for political and
> >> strategic reasons to present the problem in these terms:
> >> "Look here ladies and gentlemen: the bloodthirsty methods of Shining Path!
> >> Look here! And the Human Rights organisations have not yet condemned them".
> >> And we begin to parade some corpses:
> >> "Look here! Look how they assassinated Mrs Moyano (Mother Courage - the
> >> "leftist" Maria Elena Moyano). Look here! LOOK HOW THEY assassinated THIS
> >> ONE, AND THIS OTHER".
> >> And, about the roots of these problems? Nothing. This is how we have been
> >> conducting things AND IT SUIT US. It is one method. We are at war. We
> >> always portray them as murderers. But they are not murderers, it is simply
> >> that we are engaged in a struggle for power with them".
> >> Rosser, are you sure you did not go to the same Military Academy as the
> >> Peruvian fascists generals?
> >> If you did not, then you will see clearly that malecki's "martyred" hero
> >> comes under the sub-title of THIS ONE, AND THIS OTHER, and that the
> >> Trotskyst in this list are playing the same tune as the Military fascists
> >> because it also SUITS THEM!
> >> Adolfo
> Do the Trotskyst sectarians in this list regurgitating the slanders of the
> Poder Obrero Zubatovs and republishing the Peruvian Military High Command
> line of saying:
> "Look here, look at the bloodthirsty methods of Shining Path! Look how they
> murdered our "good comrade Chiara", know anything either, except what the
> policeman in charge of signing communiques in the name of this flea sized
> Jehova's witness outfit Poder Obrero alleges? Is this not exactly what the
> Military High Command has ADOPTED AS ITS GENERAL PROPAGANDA AND
> PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE STRATEGY AGAINST THE REVOLUTION OF THE WORKERS AND
> PEASANTS IN PERU?
> No. They do not. And you do not either. Neither do you, malecki, Plant, or
> any other have the slightest idea if all those executed by the Russian
> revolutionaries - let us only here refer to the period in which Trotsky was
> also a member of the leadership of the revolution - charged by the masses
> with sabotage, spying, disruption, etc, were each and every one guilty, of
> if a miscarriage of justice had been committed.
> The Mensheviks and the rest of the counter-revolutionaries abroad - like the
> Trotskyst do today vis a vis the Peruvian revolution - were also adopting
> the same anti-revolutionary stance and alleging theat the Bolsheviks were
> killing innocent fellow leftists. In fact Trotsky was portrayed by them as
> the most bloodthirsty of all Bolsheviks.
> It sounds to me that next you are going to start demanding proof for every
> victim of the French revolution, the Cromwell revolution, and so ad infinitum!
> You and all this counter-revolutionaries with the emigree mentality of the
> Bourbons dispute the right of the political power of the revolutionaries,
> dispute the right of the revolution and erect yourself into cheap versions
> of the US style supra-national defenders of "human rights" and judges, jury,
> and executioners against the revolutionary right of the new state.
> However, my conviction that the case of Walter Chiara - if it is a real case
> at all - cannot but be part of this counter-revolutionary propaganda machine
> is not only based on the existance of this policy as proven by the very
> declarations of the Peruvian generals in charge of implementing it.
> It is based on the simple fact that a revolutionary Party has no interest in
> committing miscarriages of justice or even take measures to punish anyone
> which would not meet with the approval of the masses.
> 16 years of People's War and the GROWING SUPPORT for the revolution, proves
> that the Communist Party does not antagonise the masses, on the contrary,
> proves the very facts that reasonable and principled Leftists themselves
> admit, whatever their disagreements with the PCP. Here the words of Marcial
> Rubio from Desco, the United Left linked NGO, a man no one, not even the
> slimy PLANTED fleas of Poder Obrero could accusse of being a "supporter of
> Shining Path":
> JOURNALIST - "Pardon our insistance, but in the short time we have been in
> Peru, we have the impression that there is sympathy and a level of
> acceptance for Shining Path among the population, and this can not be the
> result of treating the people with such verticalism.......
> MARCIAL RUBIO - "There is acceptance for Shining Path - even if this does
> not respond to political motives - because it establishes (social) order.
> The people know who their great betrayers are: the rich, the priests, the
> police, the judges. Those are the corrupt, and the people know it. When
> Shining Path comes, the people applaud them because it does away with the
> rapists, the thiefs and the despicable tyrants with a gun and a uniform.
> Look here. I know about this little peasant community in the Andes. In 160
> years of Republican life in Peru, there was never any authority to enforce
> the local teacher to comply with the timetable corresponding to his job.
> The Shining Path arrived and called for an assembly, in which they asked the
> population what their problems were. Among other problems, the people said
> that the teacher was not complying either with the hours or days in which he
> was supposed to teach. Then Shining Path fixed what the state never was
> able to. They said: The teacher will start teaching on Mondays and will
> carry on until Fridays. There is no more to say. He must comply with his
> Or better even, the words of a member of the rank and file of the United
> Left in Peru who the journalists interviewed. These are the words of Pablo,
> a sociologist and leader of a Non Government Organisation:
> "This idea, this fear felt by a certain part of Peruvian society before
> Shining Path is the consequence of the bourgeois media. These have carried
> out a campaign which is part and parcel of the counter-insurgency
> sychological plans"
> "Equally responsible are the intellectuals and the leaders of the legal
> left. We have spoken horrors against Shining Path, and this has been done
> for two very concrete reasons: Shining Path aims to conquer power, while
> the Left aims to conquer parliamentary seats and bureaucratic positions.
> Shining Path is working for a total change of the social structures while
> the Left is trying to modernise and reform this state which no longer has
> any life left on it".
> "Currently the legal Left, the Right, the government, the state, and even
> the devil, are trying to make Shining Path be the best pretext for their own
> failure. We are tormented and hurtful when recognising that we have failed,
> before history, and before our own people, in practising what we had preached".
> "Shining Path, on the other hand, does not talk a lot. They actually do
> things. They do. Whether we like it or not. Rightly or wrongly before our
> eyes and in relation to our principles: I do not even know anymore what
> these principles are now".
> "I am very confident in what I am saying. I do not think we have confronted
> this issue with responsability and honesty. I believe that it is possible to
> hold political talks with Shining Path. It is quite another thing that many
> popular leaders within any section of the legal left may not understand that
> for Shining Path all tactical actions are geared to the seizure of power.
> If they would realise that and meet criteria on that issue, it is possible
> to have dialogue. For me this is quite simple, I see the strategic
> discourse (of the Left leaders) as quite logical, but how to they put it
> into practice? What practical basis do they have for it in reality?"
> And Pablo again, talking about the Left and Shining Path:
> "If Shining Path would want to expel all the leftist leaders and NGOs from
> the shanty-towns and urban sprawls, they would do it. They have the
> necessary power. However, there is still some there working in those areas,
> and that is because in someway they have been consistent towards the people
> and the peoples struggles".
> In my personal case: If the people among whom I work would want me out, I
> would leave. If it is Shining Path, I would not...... if I have not
> promoted paternalism or anti-insurgency plans, the people themselves would
> tell them that they cannot touch me. And this has already happened with
> several leaders.....but if the leader becomes aloof from his organisation,
> or if his political, neighbourhood or non-government organisation has failed
> in articulating a viable proposal in which his leading role is reflected,
> the people will let him to fall, to die alone".
> "That is what happened with Mrs Moyano. Let's be honest with that incident.
> If the population would not had already been questioning her role, they
> would have intervened on her behalf so that she would not have been
> executed. At least they would have warned her that they were coming to kill
> her. I am sure of that the people know those who killed her. They are still
> living there in Villa El Salvador".
> "If the people would have seen her as a good leader, they would, sooner or
> later, have gone to the house of those who killed her and brought them out
> to judge them. But the people did not feel that she represented their
> (From the Book "Peru - the Possible Paths" by Colombian journalist Hernan
> Calvo Ospina and Belgian journalist Katjlin Declerq)
> Was the "martyr" of the maleckian fleas of Poder Obrero a "good leader" or
> even appreciated by his fellow workers? Did he represent the interests of
> the working people? No. He represented the interestes of the class enemy of
> the proletariat of all countries., and of the people of Peru.
> Adolfo Olaechea
> --- from list marxism at lists.village.virginia.edu ---
Rosser Jr, John Barkley
rosserjb at jmu.edu
--- from list marxism at lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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