hariette spierings hariette at
Mon Oct 7 08:02:13 MDT 1996

Another Professor!

How do they hurt when the counter-revolutionary nature of those using
marxism against the revolution, are shown to be working the same side of the
class divide that George Orwell, The Peruvian Military High Command, and the
assorted fleas and cockroaches serving as disease carriers of the
imperialist slander campaigns, not against individuals, but against the real
and living revolutions these individuals defend, or at least in the case of
Louis Proyect, adopt a friendly attitude to them.

It is here where we have to find this doctoral Professor's reasons for his
personalised outburts against Louis Proyect, whose only crime is to have
tried, maybe by not very effective means, to restarin the will to do
counter-revolutionary propaganda of the Rodwells and maleckis.

It is this kind of marxism which more than justifies the absolute
indiference of the working people to all the rantings and wishy washy
admonitions of this "class warriors" stuck on a "Transitional limbo".

A. Olaechea

PS:  I would never mind sinking to any lows whatsoever in the opinion of
these Professor if by that I can expose the manner in which a
counter-revolutionary strategy of using these very phoney Marxists as
loudhailers for the defence of the reactionary Peruvian state and US
imperialist interests in my country.  The opinion of this twit is absolutely
of no importance, since it only boils down to assertions and is incapable to
expalin the coincidence between the admitted policy of the Peruvian Military
High Command and the actions of Rodwell-Poder-Obrero-Quispe and malecki in
this list.

That is where a good marxist shows his mettle.  Explain this glaring
"contradiction" which shows itself in CONCRETE FACTS WITHIN A CONCRETE
SITUATION, and then all your boasting and belittling of Louis Proyect's
Marxist credentials may be considered as something different but a fit of
pique on your part, no different in character of that of any one else.

Adolfo Olaechea

>Louis Proyect writes:
>"I frankly am sick and tired of *having* to biff people like Martens,
>"neil", Rodwell, etc. I would much rather write about Zinoviev's
>understanding of Leninism. As far as Adolfo is concerned, I am quite sure
>that his main goal is putting forward the program of the PCP. It would be a
>snap for a guy as smart and as serious as him to drop the
>Trotskyite-baiting. It would probably help him to grow politically."
>Come off it Proyect. I've yet to see you score a single point off Rodwell in
>all your exchanges. I won't call them discussions - you clearly don't know
>the meaning of the word. The fact is, Proyect, Rodwell obviously has more
>knowledge of theoretical and practical Marxism-Leninism, history and current
>events in his little finger - and wit to boot - than you and all your
>"don't-let-them poison-M1" cronies have put together. Moreover, he has on
>any showing consistently followed the rules of civilized political discourse
>- and that in the face of some of the most unprincipled, slanderous
>provocation I have seen in twenty-five years of political activity.
>It appears your education has been sadly neglected somewhere along the line,
>so let me spell some of these rules out for you: 1) Define your position or
>line on the basis of established facts (if they aren't established,
>substantiate them) and reasoned argument. 2) Defend your position against
>attack by the same method. If you can't, or won't, your position is probably
>untenable. 3) Answer points raised; do not counter them with personal
>invective. 4) Stick to the matter at hand until the difference is resolved
>one way or the other. 5) Do not resort to innuendo, crushing put-downs or
>other psychological tricks aimed at denigrating the person of your
>antagonist. Whether Malecki is a "pain in the ass", can't spell, is bald or
>eats meatballs is neither here nor there. 6) Do not publicly assume that
>someone is an idiot/nutter/lunatic simply because you don't happen to like
>his/her opinions. I say "like" because with you everything is seemingly a
>matter of taste. 7) Special rule: Keep in mind that Marxism is a science and
>that words like Bolshevik, Menshevik, Stalinist, State Cap, Trotskyist, etc.
>are specific terms with established definitions within the Marxist- Leninist
>tradition. You have been characterised as a Menshivik on the grounds of your
>objective position as defined by what you say and what you do. If you
>disagree, prove your opponents wrong by applying Rule 2 above. You won't
>convince anyone (new) by dismissing the former as fools and writing off
>their polemics as "arcane", obsolete claptrap.
>Lastly - and this is not a rule, just common sense - if you regard anyone's
>contribution as irrelevant to the issues at hand - even as you see them -
>the delete button is there for the using. Leave the agonising over coiled
>adders and poisoned lists to others more level-headed than you. All this
>invoking the silent assent of invisible cohorts of indignant, right-minded
>people determined to stop scurrilous (and equally invisible) agents bent on
>dragging the list under is pure cant.  And it stinks. In short, Proyect,
>speak for yourself. That's rule 8, by the way.
>I have gone on at some length about this because since I joined M1, about
>three months ago, I have seen you infringe every single one of these rules
>many times. I have yet to hear from you a considered analysis of anything,
>least of all Trotskyism and why it's irrelevant to today's concerns. You
>merely state that this is so (ad nauseam) and assume in your mind-blowing
>arrogance that everyone "with any sense" will automatically go along with
>you, simply because *you* say it. (True, Henwood does deliver himself of the
>occasional sage nod).
>As for "*having*to biff XYZ", who appointed you official minder on M1,
>anyway? Why don't you simply carry out your threat/promise to retire to the
>ordered sanctum of the Unity List and leave the loonies to it. Or, better
>still, get a job subbing on Rolling Stone, where you really belong. Anyone
>who didn't know better might conclude that *you* were the evil force at work
>on M1, plotting to get rid of Rodwell and the rest even if you had to get
>the good guys to moderate the entire list out of existence to do it. But as
>you've so often intimated, people like R & Co. are marginal concerns, petty
>irritants to a man of your colossal mental powers, vast erudition and
>important contacts. Why you bother at all is a mystery to me.
>As you'll have gathered by now, Proyect, I'm not one of those "many good"
>people who've been put off by Rodwell's, Malecki's, Martens', "neil's" or
>even Olaechea's antics. I am, however, extremely put off by yours. To put it
>mildly.  If I had to choose between any of their positions and yours purely
>on the basis of your respective contributions and general behaviour on the
>list since I joined, I'd go for theirs without hesitation. And considering
>the depths to which Olaechea has sunk lately, that's saying a great deal.
>Beside you, Proyect, they positively shine with virtue.
>It seems some people think you're funny. I think you're a hoot. Zinoviev's
>understanding of Leninism, already. You'd be better off concentrating on
>your own.
>Stuart Sheild
>     --- from list marxism at ---

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