Plain dealing, plain speaking, and the listfutures

Rosser Jr, John Barkley rosserjb at
Fri Oct 11 15:51:39 MDT 1996

     Gosh Lou, last week I was a moron and now I am even a
bigger schmuck than you thought I was.  And how big was
that, might I ask?  If you keep this up, I'll have to join
a Trotskyist sect and start accusing you of Menshevism.  In
the meantime, I suggest a nice cigar and some good port
after dinner..., :-).
     More seriously, a major problem on this list has been
too many people spending too much time on their egomaniacal
autobiographies.  That has certainly included both you and
malecki.  My view was that the way to deal with malecki was
to ignore him.  But you insisted on this investigative
vendetta that triggered his bombing us with gobs of his
pathetic alleged autobiography.  We have all had to suffer
through this drivel, which, as I suspected it would, showed
up that malecki was at least partly right about his life,
but also partly screwed up about it as well.  So what?
     As for what I was doing in the late 60s and early 70s,
yes, I was in grad school studying economics, but I was
also active in the antiwar movement.  No, I shall not join
the "I led the Lima 1963 Soviet" autobiography crowd on
this list other than to say that I had more than my share
of tear gas back then....
     To Bob, I must say that this latest bit where you are
suddenly coy about telling us details about your
indictments, relations with the FBI, etc. is really
annoying.  If you need to be so secretive about stuff, then
why the hell are you writing books and covering the
internet with all your personalistic crud?!?!?
     Let me contrast your behavior with the real Timothy
McVeighs of the antiwar movement, the New Year's Gang that
blew up the Army Math Research Center in Madison, Wisconsin
on August 24, 1970, using a truck full of fertilizer,
McVeigh's method.  An antiwar physics grad student was
killed and this bombing became a major blackeye and setback
to the antiwar movement.
      Nevertheless, when their leader, Karl Armstrong, was
captured in Canada, he turned his trial in 1973 into a
mitigation hearing with William Kunstler as the lead
attorney which became probably the biggest single trial
accusing the US government of crimes in Vietnam that took
place during the war in the US.  Karl had admitted his
guilt and served 7 1/2 years of a 23 year sentence.  Two of
his partners were later caught and served shorter
sentences, although Leo Burt has never been caught.  But
then he does not write ridiculous autobiographies and plead
for amnesty on the internet.
     As for Karl Armstrong, I know him personally, Bob, and
you are no Karl Armstrong.  In 1989 he stood before a large
group of people and publicly apologized to the antiwar
movement and to the survivors of the man he killed for the
mistakes he made . Today he is a mild mannered guy who runs
a fruit juice stand in Madison.  (A good source on all this
is _Rads_ by Tom Bates, Harper Collins, 1992, although it
contains some inaccuracies.  Even Ph.D. historians can make
errors sometimes)...:-).
Barkley Rosser
On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 19:23:37 -0400 (EDT) Louis N Proyect
<lnp3 at> wrote:

> On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Rosser Jr, John Barkley wrote:
> >      1)  It's put up or shut up time, Lou.  Either you find
> > some copies of the Cleveland Plain Dealer that malecki
> > cited that lack his claimed articles, or I think that you
> > must admit that at least part of his tale is correct, even
> > if you disagree with how he claims to have participated in
> > the antiwar movement (trying to blow up buildings).  You
> > certainly did find some discrepancies in his tale, but your
> > broader claim that he is a police agent hired to disrupt
> > the list (although he does disrupt the list) looks
> > increasing laughable.
> Louis: Yes, I do owe Malecki a profuse apology. He certainly was guilty of
> crimes and I'm glad he finally furnished the list with some evidence of
> his past. He states that he was stockpiling dynamite to use in "public
> buildings" and in a "power plant" to protest the Vietnam war. You describe
> this "participating" in the antiwar movement. You are an even bigger
> schmuck than I thought you were. What were you doing in the late 60s and
> early 70s? Sitting in graduate student housing studying microeconomics?
> Some of us were trying to mobilize millions of people into action against
> a horrible imperialist war. The acts of people like the one's in Malecki's
> gang or the ones who penetrated the Black Panther Party have nothing to do
> with the 60s. They were often the result of conscious police provocation
> with the assistance of pretty stupid people or people who had their brains
> fried on acid. These types of "radical" actions helped to destroy the
> black liberation movement and nearly derailed the antiwar movement, but we
> won't let them destroy this list.
>      --- from list marxism at ---

Rosser Jr, John Barkley
rosserjb at

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