The Irish Question

d.bedggood at d.bedggood at
Mon Oct 14 06:04:26 MDT 1996

> Date:          Sun, 13 Oct 96 00:53 BST-1
> From:          jplant at (Jj Plant)
> Subject:       The Irish Question
> To:            marxism at jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU
> Cc:            jplant at
> Reply-to:      marxism at jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU

> In-Reply-To: <325FCA0E.7542 at>
> Richard,
> The Irish question is a good one precisely because it is difficult.

[Plant if you are having difficulty with this one you are going to
have a hell of a lot more with the TP.  I would suggest you badly
need help on Trotsky's method - dialectics - and should open up the
unity list to all sworn "dyed-in-the-wool" , creative, adventurist,
idiosyncratic and extended-family Trotskyists of whatever
tendency. The need to regenerate Trotskyism is much bigger than you
or the unity list]]

> Here are some Irish questions.
> What is the significance of the 'national question' in Ireland today ?

[The same as when Marx and Engels, then Lenin and Trotsky wrote about
it way back. What has changed is the left which no longer uses the
dialectical method to understand the national question ]

 In what
> ways are workers in the occupied six counties to benefit from integration with
> the catholic state in the south ?

[What a question. If you are going to ignore the democratic right of the Irish to
oppose the forcible partition of their country, and justify any
position on the basis of "benefit" why limit it to the workers in the
6 counties?  Why not the world working class? The struggle for
self-determination is after all the fight of one part of the worlds
workers for freedom from oppression which requires the active support
of the workers of the oppressor state/s.  What did Marx say about
Irish independence being a precondition for revolution in Britain?]

Precisely how would workers' rights and
> women's rights be advanced by a Sinn Fein government?
 How do you think you can advance the rights to abortion, contraception and divorce by supporting PIRA or
> INLA ?

[You reveal your abstract method. Who's to say what government would
be in power in a united Ireland.  You are assuming that the Brits
will give up on the 6 counties and nothing else will change. But for
the Brits to "give up" would be a defeat for Brit Imperialism, it
would mean a victory for working class politics not only in Ireland
but in Britain. If we are pessimistic and assume that this victory
will fall short of socialism, then at the very least the united
working class of Ireland, and the heightened internationalism of
Brit, Irish workers will be able to complete the secularisation of
their state and defend and win more democratic rights than is the case now.]

How do you think the working class community on the Isle of Dogs can be
> brought to support such forces when over a year after the Canary Wharf bomb
> repairs to their homes have not been completed ?
[that is after all the point of unconditional defence of Irish
freedom. British workers have to become conscious that it is not the
action of Irish bombers that is the final cause of their
homelessness,  but British imperialism.  The Isle of Dog workers might
be harder to persuade than the the most advanced layers of workers,
but they too will benefit from a united Ireland, and the advancing
struggle for socialism which, among other things, would repair their
homes.] >

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