Moderation and slander

Hugh Rodwell m-14970 at mailbox.swipnet.se
Mon Oct 14 18:45:40 MDT 1996


I've been asked to forward this.

Cheers,

Hugh

_________________________________________________________

There is a new list (marxism-international) which has this principle:

"4. No accusations of the type that a list member is a cop. Anyone who
thinks s/he has a case, should privately mail the moderators producing
the evidence."

One of his co-moderators, Jon Flanders, openly condemned how some pro-PCPSL
person was attacking everybody else as "counter-revolutionaries agents",
etc.

Luis Godena, who should agree with Jon, said exactly the opposite:
"In fairness to Adolfo,  Jon, ... he has my respect and support."

I sent a message to Godena.
"We demand that Godena *openly* rejects the slander methods that we saw
quite recently"

What was his reaction?

To re-inforce the slanders!

Godena: "I have not seen any evidence of Adolfo "fingering" anyone to be
murdered by the Peruvian security services.     There is,   however,  ample
evidence that various Trotskyites have been intimately involved in
identifying suspected Communists as "Sendero" to then be "disappeared",
tortured and killed by the government,  a role well suited for them by years
of similar activities in Indonesia,  Vietnam,  and elsewhere and which they
have reprised here with telling effect."

His friend didn't "finger" anybody to be murdered by the Peruvian security
service, but he defended the murder of tens of militants from all the
Peruvian left and he fingered as CIA agents other people in the list
including many Peruvians from the internet. For the PCP-SL the only way to
deal with agents is with the gun.

In all the discussions we didn't receive any reply except that everybody
else are Zubatovs and spies which deserve to be eliminated by the
revolution. Godena endorsed that misbehaviour.

I am demanding to Godena that he should give explanations and evidence of
such an incredible slander:

"There is,   however,  ample evidence that various Trotskyites have been
intimately involved in identifying suspected Communists as "Sendero" to then
be "disappeared",  tortured and killed by the government, ..."


Whath are his proofs? He would not have nothing! On the contrary, the people
>from the marxist list already saw who "disappeared,  tortured and killed"
valuable left militants in the name of the revolution and who is advocating
to do this every time.

Do the other two moderators of marxism-international support
Godena's methods? How can you have that principle against slanders while at
the same time one of your moderators is promoting one?

Last thing. I am not inside the marxist list and I was induced to
participate in the discussion on the crisis of the PCP-SL. I had the illusion
that it would be possible to discuss ideas and positions. The PCP-SL is in a
complete political bankrupcy and there supporters are incapable of doing any
thing rather than insult, threat with physical violence and sending
virus-infecting (?) mail-bombings to their opponents. Even in between them
they only discuss making insults. There is one person which think that there
one supreme god and that he is his only prophet in London. If another other
person agree with that god but not with the prophet (like the case of
Quispe) he should be label as CIA agent. Now another person which believe in
Gonzalo and think that Quispe is an spy was heavily attacked by the great
prophet because he expressed some disagreements and doubts.

I decided to not reply to any more of these stupid attacks. If somebody
wants to
rise some political questions and wants to discuss with high political level
I will answer. I don't want to waste my time. I received a forwarded message
>from an Spanish comrade which left the list very dissapointed. I share with
him many of his motives.



Appendix
The letter that I sent two days ago;
>One friend sent me a copy of the rules of the new marxism-international
>list, which I *agree*:
>
>"4. No accusations of the type that a list member is a cop. Anyone who
>thinks s/he has a case, should privately mail the moderators producing
>the evidence."
>
>As far as I know Luis R Godena is one of their moderators.
>Nevertheless, few days ago he did exactly the opposite of what this clause
>said.
>
>For one week there was one person which accused of the CIA, Fujimori and
the
>Peruvian "Minister of Information" all his opponents (which were a big
>proportion of the people which actively send messages to the marxist list).
>Without any single evidence he accused the following people of being people
>whose profession was to spy for the fascists and the CIA:
>
>* Hugh Rodwell
>* John Plant
>* Robert Malecki
>* Garcia Nunez
>* J. Ponce
>* Ruiz
>* L. Quispe
>* Poder Obrero
>* All the rest of Peruvian subscribers from the list and nearly all the
>People which are in the internet Peruvian system
>
>In addition he justified the killings of Chiara, Huillca, Cantoral and
>leaders from all the significative left currents in Peru. The following
>so-call Marxist political currents have Peruvian comrades which he openly
>defended their murders:
>
>* Former pro-Soviet Union Communists
>* Former pro-Albania communists
>* Pro-China communists
>* Pro-Vietnam communists
>* Pro-Korea communists
>* Castroites
>* Pro-Sandinistas
>* Social democrats
>* Left Christians
>* New left
>* Trotskyists
>* Maoists from other currents
>
>For him ALL are fascists which deserve to be eliminated!
>
>Quite recently he threatened people inside the marxist list with physical
>violence and some people in marxist list denounced that they are very
>worried of being infected by virus produced by recently private
>mail-bombings that he organised.
>
>A moderator of a list which is openly against any kind of false accusations
>and lumpen methods should openly *denounce* that methods. What Luis R
Godena
>did?
>
>Jon Flanders, another of the 3 moderators of the new "non-slander" list,
>wrote quite correctly a message *against* that lumpen behaviour. What was
>Godena's comment?
>
>On 9 October in his message "A note to Jon Flanders about Adolfo", Gondena
>wrote:
>
>" Jon,   you write:
>
>>I completely agree that labelling anyone that disagrees with you as a
>>counter-revolutionary is wrong. This is the heart of the problem of the
>method
>>that Adolpho uses. It leads him to the extremes that we have witnessed in
>the
>>last few days.
>
>In fairness to Adolfo,  Jon, ... he has my respect and support."
>
>We demand that Godena *openly* rejects the slander methods that we saw
quite
>often from the person which he supports. If not, he would not have any
moral
>authority to rule a list which have this clause:
>
>"4. No accusations of the type that a list member is a cop. Anyone who
>thinks s/he has a case, should privately mail the moderators producing
>the evidence."
>
>
>
_____




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