74742.1651 at compuserve.com
Sat Sep 14 00:47:08 MDT 1996
Justin S. says (9/13/96) he is a " liberal small d-democrat, if that means
someone who believes in representative government, universal suffrage, extensive
civil and political rights and liberties,and the rule of law rather than of men.
That's not the full extent of democracy, but it is a legacy of the revolutionary
bourgeoisie, it's nothing to sneeze at. If "bourgeois democracy means that
capitalism is a fine thing if combined with liberal democracy, i am no bourgeois
liberal democrat since, for all my toleration of markets(quite unlike my
enthusiatic support for liberal democracy) I am adamently opposed to
This muddle should be dealt with seriously but not just to 'nail" the individual
Justin. These errant
and conradictory views permeate a good portion of the official "left wing" in
the USA and probably
to a lesser degree activists in other countries.This needs more fruitful
discussion and sorting out in the workers and other mass movements themselves.
Justin, we do not live in the age of the "revolutionary bourgeoisie" any longer.
That ended around WW1. The history of the 20th century should make this clear
with the Crisis-war-reconstruction cycles (WW1, WW2, world economy, monopoly,
imperialism, etc). Your views promoting state forms (which are but reflexion
of their social/economic bases) are outmoded, idealist , and only foster more
deadly illusions in capitalist reformism.
Justin's "representative government' is bourgeois government, sections of the
bourgeois are amply 'represented" by money , capital , this is true, but the
working class is not represented nor can it be
in any bourgeois parliament, executive, or court today. Democracy is the best
government money can buy.
"Universal suffrage' is a sham today. Socialist votes could be used to
pressure for reforms in the
previous historical epoch before WW1 but not today. Is Justin going to "quote
" Madison or DeToqueville TODAY and tell us that a waged workers vote is
anything near the vote buying monopoly of Trump or Rockefeller or Walton?
As concerns US "civil and political rights", this is an illusion. Tell that to
the American (Nisei)
Japanese in WW2 , and most had their precious"citizenship". Considering what
the axis imperialist side
carried out in genocidal policies, it is a small reach to see what the allies
would have done to these US Japeanes in special camps if they had been losing
The history of the Native Peoples here in the US or i should say their
remnaints speaks volumes concerning this issue as well.
The current scapegoating (state and private) of Latinos in the US shows this
"democracy' is alive and kicking.
So called "civil and political rights' ' are not granted to workers. They were
limited concessions, bitterly won in class and social struggle-- and taken back
slowly when class struggles & movements recede.
The bourgeois "rule of law" is just that , capitalist law granting some
concessions, mainly to the middle classes to advance ( and even this can be
transitory). Rather than calling this rule of capital the "rule of law" , it
would be better to expose its essence and NOT its form--- the capitalist
'golden' rule of law , that is those that have the gold, make the rules!
Materialists and especially the dialecticians here, recognize that in a society
based on commodity production,
the political superstructure is also really commodified too and is bought, sold
and paid for by the ruling class.
Justin's 'market socialism" is an oxymoron. Markets are based on buying and
selling , dominance of commodity exchange and that includes the majority of
human beings in our age and thats capitalism, what ever way you cut it, right
wing or left, liberal, social democrat, or conservative.
Capital is in essence a distinct and historic SOCIAL RELATION. Bourgeois and
their media minions try to cover this up 24 hours a day.
The serious champions of the workers here are exposing the scam and also fight
for movements that can eventually put an end to exploitation of person by
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