Stagism and class struggle,etc.
74742.1651 at compuserve.com
Mon Sep 23 01:34:58 MDT 1996
dear wei en lin,
You raise some more imporatnt issues here (9/22 posts).
Volumes have been written, thousands of discussions delivered , e-mail posts and
and much of what you ask is just in the process of being sorted out by serious
The collapse of the Eastern state-capitalist bloc and the promotion of more
open gunboat diplomacy by
the USA,as well, the other contenders for world hegemony , Germany, UK, France,
China, Japan starting to
get antsey again about their OWN imperialist spheres means questions you pose
need to be studied more about now we can draw out some conclusions from
perevious practice and an outline for the near term.
1) Yes, Lenin's teachings have helped the revolutionary cause forward in many
ways (like State and Revolution-still quite relevant) but i think it has serious
problems now with it as whole and it needs updating --re: on old colonialism,
and the problems and degeneration of "national liberation" in our epoch, the
nature of the modern global capitalism , tactics and programme of communists in
advanced countries , nature of modern unions and democracy etc.
I will deal with this more later but i don't have ALL the answers, maybe some
2) You are correct to hit the stalinos, castroists, trotsky people, soc.
democrats and others here for their impressionistic and for religio- dogmatic
interpretations of marxism.
I will try to aviod talmudism over the key issues being posed.
3) I think you are correct in the main that in terms of the material/economic
basis, much of the world is ripe to sustain socialism--but
4) I think we do not see eye to eye on some of the worlds changes over tha past
20 years especially.The era of progressive capitalism is long passed, worldwide.
Actually there are not too many pockets of pre-capitalist economic fromation and
domination in the world. Even much of the agriculture of Asia, Africa and Latin
America is driven by capitalist method and laws and method.
5) Chinese agriculture too is driven much by wage labor and privitization of
land , is it not today , esp. in the last 20 years of Deng type "reforms" also
Thailand, Vietnam, Mexico, Columbia, Angola, Zaire, Kenya, Zambia, etc. . Are
there really that many feudal type peasnats prodcution left in the world today?
I don't think there are.
6) You are right I think when yoiu assert today that it is GLOBAL capitalist
relations that are dominant and this is key. But mere pockets of pre-capitalist
social relations existant is no reason to promote the needs of this 'stagism'
stuff which only sows illusions is propping up nationalism and exploiter class
rule. The working class NOW is numerous enough in even semi-developed
capitalist states to give a go at struggle in their own name and
class interest , all the national bourgeois --big and middlin & small fear the
proletariat more than thier own filthy and bloody competition and drives for
markets and raw materials.
7) Again, what are the actual class relations in Chinese agriculture, do these
worker forces work the (state)
feudal lords land for keep or really don't most of the workers work for wages
and have a small plots of land
for produce to be sold on a capitalist market?
8) You say feudal relations are still much dominant in many parts of the world,
but where, strictly speaking?
You even posit that Pre-feudal areas are wide(chattel slavery???) , well yes,
this is true in The Sudan , Saudi Arabia, and Equatorial Guinea but where else?
9)Remember, the days of Marx were when world capitalist relations were not
dominant and capitalism was still 'progressive" for many areas of the world .
Even then it was bloodstained,ask the US Native People survivors! This epoch
for sure , certainly had ended by the 20th century when capital and modern
imperialism became dominant world -wide..
Since then , world capital develops, true , but only to periodically destroy and
mutilate in tremendous conflagrations.
ww1, ww2, Depressions, world crisis, etc.
10) On so-called national (capital) liberation, this could be backed, when
fuedal relations predominated as Marx did at times-- in his epoch , but not in
this epoch, most all national wars now become proxy wars of the imperialists
powers. Real national liberation a la the 18-19th Cent today is a mirage.
11) The rhetoric of Chinese and Russian rulers was socialistic but what they
really built was state-cap
regimes in the end-- I don't think this as inevitable though and 'stages' can
be passedup with much material aid of successful revolutions in the west by
western workers --but such a mass workers western revolutions have not
materialized to fruition --at le ast since the 1918 -21 period and they were
crushed, eg in Germany, Hungary, Italy etc.
Well, just some thoughts. does this clarify anything?
Don't worry about snide remarks from forces like Louis Proyect, etc. These
mummified & dead forces are still mired in the mistakes of the old movement and
the CoC group he affiliates with are busy today ringing doorbells , conjuring
up votes for the US imperialist President.
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