'Stalinist' : an insult or a diagnosis ? What are your sourc

Vladimir Bilenkin "achekhov at unity.ncsu.edu" at ncsu.edu
Sat Sep 28 10:20:46 MDT 1996


>
> >Adolfo Oleachea wrote:
> >
> >>>PS:  The same Work and edition as the other quote - BTW when you talk about
> >>>the Russian Edition, you only need to quote Volume and page, anyone familiar
> >>>with the Classics knows this, Rodwell).
> >>
> >>Adolfo, could you provide from time to time the  NAME of the work and the
> >>YEAR of publication. I have Lenin's last edition in Russian only.
> >>It's 55 vols,so I cannot figure out even approximately the year of
> >>the article you quote from.
> >>
> >>Thanks.
> >>
> >>Vladimir
> >>
> >
> >OLEACHEA:
> >
> >>First edition.
> >
> >>You will find these quotations in Stalin's pamphlet, "The October Revolution
> >>and Tactics Of Russian Communists"  - published in 1924 - when both Stalin
> >>and Trotsky were members of the same Party.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> "As a matter of fact, state power over all large scale means of production,
> >> >state power in the hands of the proletariat, the alliance of this
> >> >proletariat with the many millions of small and very small peasants, the
> >> >assured leadership of the peasantry by the proletariat, etc. - IS THIS NOT
> >> >ALL THAT IS NECESSARY FOR BUILDING A COMPLETE SOCIALIST SOCIETY from the
> >> >cooperatives, from the cooperatives alone which we FORMERLY looked down upon
> >> >as huckstering and which from a certain aspect we have a right to look down
> >> >upon as such now, under the NEP?  This is NOT YET the building of socialist
> >> >society, but IT IS ALL THAT IS NECESSARY AND SUFFICIENT FOR THIS BUILDING"
> >> >(See V. I. Lenin Complete Works Vol XXVII, Russian Edition, page 392)
> >>
> >> Moreover the same quotation appear in English - and giving the same source
> >> (do not worry so much about sources that things like this cannot but prompt
> >> others to look it up themselves and that will work to your disadvantage) in
> >> Stalin's pamphlet "October Revolution and Tactics of Russian Communists",
> >> published in 1924 when Trotsky - should that had been a "falsification" on
> >> Stalin's part was in full capacity to contest it and make his rights as a
> >> member of the Party.  He did not contest it, I can't see why YOU - his
> >> SERIOUS disciple - are contesting this now in a "libelous" fashion?  Run out
> >> of ideas about how to wriggle out of that hook, Hugh? Or what?
> >>
> >
> >> Adolfo
> >
> >
> >Something is fishy about Adolfo's way of quoting Lenin.  This one
> >must come from one of his works on cooperation, and I will find it.
> >I am almost sure he cannot provide the Name and the Year, because he is
> >quoting from some stalinist book of quotations which flooded the world
> >in the 1920-30s as a part of Stalin's campaign against the Left Opposition.
> >
> >Notice that Adolfo apparently cannot provide the date and the work.
> >Neither usually were mentioned in stalinist publications.  That
> >was one of the smaller tricks of the AMALGAM method: taking things
> >out of the context and mixing together different periods.
> >
> >Now, what does he mean by the "FIRST RUSSIAN EDITION"?
> >A Russian edition IN Russian or a Progress English edition?
> >
> >He obviously cannot be quoting from the First Russian Russian edition
> >of 1920-6, because it had only 20 vols.
> >He cannot be quoting from Lenin's "COMPLETE" WORKS in English because
> >such thing does not exist at all!! The largest edition of Lenin in English
> >is called "Collected Works."
> >
> >Why don't you stop being wise with us, Adolfo. Did Lenin teach us to falsify
> >our sources,  eh?
> >
> >Vladimir
> >
>
> This scurrilous argument on your part Vladimir is beneath contempt and shows
> a gross chink of superciliousness on your part which you should drop if you
> want to be of real service to the cause.
>
> I will let others find the sources to back this up.  I have no time to waste
> with silly innuendos from those without a single valid argument.
>
> Currently, yes, I am quoting from what the Communist Party of the Soviet
> Union published in 1924 as documents of its Central Committee, and I have
> given the name of the exact publication "October Revolution and Tactics of
> Russian Communists" by J.V. Stalin in his capacity as General Secretary when
> Trotsky - who never questioned this like you do - was a member - and
> remained a member for a few more years without ever controverting this source.
>
> I could go to the Marx Memorial Library and trace these quotes to a number
> of other publications (The exact same quotation about the completeness of
> the socialism for which building ALL NECESSARY AND SUFFICIENT conditions
> were present - in Lenin's viwe - in the Soviet Union, is also quoted in
> another well know publication by Stalin which no one has ever before -
> including Trotsky, Zinoviev, Kamenev, Bukharin and any other of the
> oppositionists - accussed of incuding false quotations or suspect sources:
> "The Foundations of Leninism"
> (See J.V. Stalin, Foundations of Leninism, Chapter V, The Agrarian Question,
> - towrds the end of the chapter).

You don't have to go anywhere. But you should not mislead us by FALSELY
attributing your quote from Lenin to the non-existent "Fist Russian Edition"
of his "Complete Works" (sic) in English.  Now, instead of honestly admitting
this petty transgression, you decide that offense is the best defense and
BLATANTLY misrepresent my phrase:

>Something is fishy about Adolfo's way of quoting Lenin.  This one
> must come *from one of his works on cooperation,* and I will find it.


by saying

> As to your non-argument that Lenin was speaking of "cooperation" - that is
> false too.  He was speaking of SOCIALISM (or do you have a difficulty with
>English too) and not of cooperation.

I have a lot of difficulty with English, but not to the extent of failing to
distinguish between "from" and "on."

This kind of tricks or sloppiness does not help our discussion, does not
do "real service to the cause."

> PS: per chance is cooperativism the same as a SOCIALIST SOCIETY for you?
> Otherwise why the red herring?

If by *cooperativism* you mean what Lenin did by "cooperation," then, NO!

Vladimir


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