Charles Brown CharlesB at SPAMCNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us
Fri Aug 13 08:17:13 MDT 1999

>>> Wojtek Sokolowski <sokol at jhu.edu> 08/12/99 05:10PM >>>
At 04:09 PM 8/12/99 -0400, Charles wrote:
>Charles: So, you say keep an eye on the structural conditions and then
oppose the neo-fascists when the conditions start to change ?


>Charles: Why not ? What if there is a market crash and depression , say in
five years from now ?
>>By the way, I would say that the U.S. had fascism or proto-fascism before
>Italy and Germany in the form of Jim Crow for Black people and
>Reservations/Genocide for Indigenous Peoples. So, there is U.S. cultural
>precedent for fascism.

I never said that us is immune to an openly totalitarian rule,

CB: Lets just say you poo poo it a little.


although i
would not hold by breath to see it happen.  I do not think anyone of us
knows what will happen when the makers finally crashes, let alone when will
that happen.  One can predict fascist doom, or look back into history and
predcit another New Deal - or perhaps something a bit more radical.


Charles: The Marxist approach is not just prediction and theory ( although it is that)
. It is preparation for action to affect what will happen on the issues you mention.
fascist doom, new New Deal or something a bit more radical. Right now on this thread
we are focussed on how we prevent fascism or neo-fascism, somekind of open terrorist
rule, from being what happens, if and when a crash of the market occurs. That is only
one of the contingencies, or possible scenarios and combined scenarios. Also, somethin
a bit more radical happening is made more possible by preventing neo-fascism
occurring. So, you see the different contingencies and possible scenarios are
interconnected and interrelated.


But anyway, I do not think I have much more to say on that subject, I
simply dont know.  All I wanted to argue was that I do not perceive the
militias and related crackpots as a major threat to civil liberties in this
country.  As Carrol C. aptly pointed out (and i fully agree with his
position), there are much more dangerous right wing forces, esp. in
washington DC, to be opposed than a few militia crackpots somewhere in the


Charles: I agree that you don't know. And that's why your argument that there is no
threat of open terrorist danger from militias , when the squad that blew up the
Oklahoma City Federal Building was militia is dangerously unknowing. That was the
biggest homegrown fascistlike terrorist, and liberty destroying event since the
fascistic destruction of the Black town section of Oklahoma City at the earlier in the


As to your position on the centrality of racism in capitalist development -
 I specifically cited the german example, because german industrialization
(esp. development of chemical mfg) was a resposne to that country being cut
off from access to colonies by other major european powers (england and
france) - so it is the case of capitalist development in the absence of
colonialism - which proves my point that racism is not a necessary
condition of capitalism.  But I guess we have to agree that we disagree on
that issue.


Charles: But Germany had some colonial connections in its capitalist development. The
development of chemical manufacture is not the totality of the development of German
capitalism. And German capitalism could not have developed without all of the other
European colonialisms. Capitalism is a world system (an interconnected whole). Germany
had extensive trade with the European larger colonial powers which was necessary to
its capitalist development throughout. To illustrate, Engels and his father were
German capitalists in England. They were not the only ones. As a matter of fact King
George of England during the U.S. Revolution was German.

Furthermore, anti-Semiticism is a form of racism. especially in the era of racism.
Anti-Semiticism predates racism as it derives from the feudal era. But in the
capitalist era, anti-Semiticism becomes a species of racism. It is an aspect of and
derived from the division of labor in capitalism as a transform of its role as an
oppression and aspect of the division of labor in feudalism. The Nazis' explicit
formulation of anti-Semiticism as racism was the culmination of its racist dimensions
including throughout the development of German capitalism.


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