[PEN-L:9960] Re: Re: Re: Re: TINAF Special on Washington NaziDemo--

Craven, Jim jcraven at SPAMclark.edu
Thu Aug 12 14:19:45 MDT 1999





-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Brown [mailto:CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us]
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 11:37 AM
To: pen-l at galaxy.csuchico.edu
Subject: [PEN-L:9960] Re: Re: Re: Re: TINAF Special on Washington
NaziDemo--




((((((((((>>> "Charles Brown" <CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us> 08/11/99
I had said:

Charles: My position is that there is not fascism in the U.S. today

(((((((((((((

Charles: I would modify that. There is fascism against many Indians,
including reservation/concentration camps.

See Jim Craven's discussions

Charles Brown

I guess what I was trying to say, now with much less invective, is that if
we walk a mile in each other's shoes, and by each other I mean not only in
the shoes of fellow Americans or Canadians, but walk a mile in the shoes of
peoples all over the world, and if we widen our parameters of thought to
think of the U.S. system as a globalized system that extends far beyond the
formal territorial limits of America, then:

For the Iraqi, Cuban and other  civilians dying through lack of medicines
and foods from unconscionable embargos, what is being done to them, and the
aspects of the globalized imperial system that they experience, is a whole
lot like fascism;

For the peoples of Latin and Central America, deported back to face death
squads, trained and armed by the U.S., and for those living under grotesque
despotic regimes armed and trained by the U.S., what they experience is a
whole lot like fascism;

For the peoples of Africa and elsewhere suffering horrible and quite
preventable famines, killing millions of people, while precious life-saving
resources are looted by US trained/armed kleptocracies and fascist regimes,
what they suffer from and what they perceive to be the cause is a whole lot
like fascism;

For African-Americans subject daily to racial profiling and odds of being
shot by trigger-happy police being 40 times the odds faced by whites and for
African-Americans living daily under conditions and trends that can only
produce early deaths and miserable lives, what they suffer and the policies
guiding/producing what they suffer, smell a whole lot like fascism;

I understand that the concept of fascism can be misused and that rhetoric
and hyperbole can cause people to be desensitized (like crying wolf) so that
when real fascism comes, people do not recognize it. But I only note that
when we consider "America" to include all the globalized tentacles of
imperialism, that act like a reverse "Hoover" (normally a vacuum cleaner
takes out the dirt and leaves a clean room and furniture; imperialism, on
the other hand, takes out the "furniture"--resources, talented peoples
etc--and leaves even more dirt--strip bars, orphanages full of unwanted
mixed-race children, aids etc)d if we consider as fellow "citizens", all
those who suffer to promote wealth accumulation and relative prosperity "at
home", then it is academic how much nominal "freedom" and "prosperity" or
how little formal "fascism" exists at "home."

I certainly know that Charles and many others understand that and my
comments were wild but certainly not specifically directed. Yes it is also
important to note and utilize any specific and unique "freedoms" and
institutions to promote substantive changes that limit the growth and
influence of fascism as anyone would understand and recognize it.

Jim Craven









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