Andre Gunder Frank

Michael Pugliese debsian at
Wed Nov 3 05:34:49 MST 1999


[Note from Our Website has been down for a week. It
should be up and running soon. In the meantime all articles can be read by
going to: ]

"Vast numbers of people all over the world have protested the bombing of
Yugoslavia. But now, after the cessation of bombing, we in Yugoslavia have
entered the worst hell. Serbs, Roma, Jews and others are driven out of
Kosovo; some disappear; some are murdered and their murders attributed to
forces beyond NATO's control. Some, like the Serbs and Roma of Orahovac, are
imprisoned in a new Warsaw Ghetto." (Statement 10-23-99 by Cedomir
Prlincevic, President, Jewish Community of Pristina, driven from Kosovo by
the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) and NATO)

"The whole scene was one of horror, the children crying, us women trying to
convince KFOR [i.e., NATO officers]. The Dutch Commander shouted: "ENOUGH!
Just those who came should go back on the truck and the children must go back
where they came." So there was more crying and the women were crying and
shouting, and he screamed: "ENOUGH!" So we left, but the children were forced
to return to Orahovac." (Natasha, interviewed below.)

The following is condensed from 3 interviews with members of the Women's
Humanitarian Committee on Orahovac. The full text will be available by Nov. 5
at The women have been fighting
against all odds to free their relatives from a nightmare that defies summary
description: you must read the interviews to grasp the horror of what NATO
(KFOR) has done.

On Oct. 23, I described these interviews to a large antiwar meeting in
Amsterdam. People were horrified at the role of Dutch KFOR. On the 28th Nico
Varkevisser of Global Reflexion, Mr. Prelincevic, the Jewish leader/refugee
from Pristina and I addressed party representatives from the Military
Committee of the Dutch Parliament. Some were moved; one (the Christian
Democrat) simply did not want to hear about Orahovac. The Dutch government is
only starting to realize: Orahovac is their nightmare as well; this scandal
challenges their very legitimacy.

The Orahovac Women urge all decent people to join them in the new
International Humanitarian Committee on Orahovac. As the Women suggest, the
International Committee calls on you to:

1) Protest to the Dutch government. (Email and fax addresses at the end)

2) Join and help the International Committee. Email SaveFamilies at or
write to Orahovac Committee c/o Global Reflexion, PO Box 59262, 1040 KG,
Amsterdam, Holland

3) Support the International Delegation which will go to Orahovac to bring
out everyone who wants to leave. For more details, see the heading SAVE THE
FAMILES after the interviews.

Please read these interviews. See what NATO is doing IN OUR NAME.

Interviewer: Jared Israel. Translator: Peter Makara.

Included are excerpts from "To Kosovo and Back" by Zoran, a Serbian
diplomatic aide who toured Kosovo a month ago. His complete report can be
read at
-- Jared Israel


We first interviewed Natasha, age 27. An Orahovac native, she studied in
Belgrade until December, 1998, then returned to Orahovac. In August, 1999,
she escaped. Natasha says 3000 Serbs are held in the town. When the Yugoslav
Army left in June and KFOR (NATO) occupation troops arrived:

Natasha: "Maybe a thousand or more Serbs left. Orahovac is unique in that so
many did stay; that’s because we believed KFOR guarantees  we’d be safe. When
it became clear things weren’t going to be that way, people wanted to leave,
but they were not allowed. Besides the Serbs, 500-1000 Roma, or 'Gypsies',

Natasha: "From April on our telephone connections as well as Serbian radio
and TV were cut off thanks to NATO bombing. We had little information about
what was happening in the rest of the country. We heard that after the June
Peace Agreement was signed there was a massive exodus of Serbs from Prizen
and elsewhere but we couldn’t verify it so we wondered if it was true.
Meanwhile, we were constantly being told by Western media that our security
would be guaranteed - for instance, by Voice of America, which we heard via
satellite connections. They used phrases about multiethnic, multicultural
society and their Democracy and promised first to disarm KLA, then to
establish their laws.
"The morning before KFOR arrived there was a meeting of their representatives
with the Mayor, a Serb, plus other Serbs including the head of the winery.
KFOR said that in two days or so life would return to normal. The next day
the houses were burning."

Natasha: "With KFOR, the KLA came. The same day. Some neighbors even appeared
in KLA uniforms. We were horrified. Suddenly we didn’t feel safe [in the
mixed section of Orahovac] so we moved to the Serbian part.
"As we were leaving we saw, already, Serbian houses being burned. KFOR did
nothing. We complained; they said they didn’t have enough people. Soon
reinforcements arrived but the situation stayed the same for a month. Over a
hundred houses were burned. And they robbed whatever they could. A few
"Gypsy" (Roma) houses were burned too. Twenty-five people who stayed in the
mixed section were kidnapped, plus their houses were burned too.

"Slowly we realized the extent of the mistake we’d made in not leaving. Every
day KFOR offered new excuses for not protecting us. They said: 'We can’t put
guards in front of every house. We can’t give every Serb an armed guard.'
"The KFOR checkpoint is close to the ghetto. KFOR guards the entrance and
exit to the Serbian area. Plus there are barricades, which the Albanians put
up. First you hit KFOR and second you hit the Albanian barricades. KFOR
supplied tents for the Albanians who are sitting on those barricades. And
they ran electric wiring into those tents to provide current."

[In his article in emperors-clothes, Zoran reports "Albanian roadblocks
outside Orahovac are former German/Dutch fortified checkpoints. I can not
imagine that Albanians could have taken control of those without [KFOR's]
tacit approval – or instigation. The organizing committee at the roadblocks
is armed. Heavier weapons are kept in hundreds of tents erected around the
barricades – supposedly for women and children. Muscular men in sport suits
patrolling the site carry small firearms under their jackets."]


Natasha: "We were kept in this Serb enclave. My parents can come out on the
streets but that’s dangerous; two people were wounded just being outside the
house. Those who have tried to escape simply disappeared.
"There is no phone service to Belgrade. The only food is from humanitarian
sources. One "Gypsy" tried to ship food from the Albanian to the Serbian
section; some extreme Albanian group told him, "No food for the Serbs!" Near
the beginning we would send some Albanian kid to buy stuff for us. But the
kid would be beaten up and they would tell him 'Don't do that again!'

"The ghetto is 500 square yards. Water is erratic: once in three days for two
or three hours.

"During the first days there were lots of reporters. Later there were fewer;
I spoke to a Reuters' journalist twice. The second time he said the first
interview had been all censored and crossed out."

[Zoran reports: "In the first days after KFOR's arrival, 5 Orahovac Serbs
were killed and 10 abducted under the watchful eyes of German troops. Serbs
aren't even allowed to go to the market or grocery store 50 meters away. The
considerable Gypsy population, together with the Serbs, suffers equally."]

Natasha: "The only thing that KFOR did was organize a shipment of bread to
the Serbian part; they were very proud of it. We only see KFOR in the street;
there are no meetings. The Albanians are in charge. They took everything. You
occasionally have small KFOR patrols but Headquarters is in the Albanian
[Zoran reports: "In Orahovac itself the former police station has been turned
into a KLA HQ. The local KLA commander, the man who runs this town, is a mass
murderer named Ismet Hara, responsible for last year’s abductions and brutal
killings of over 60 Serbian civilians from Orahovac (the bodies of most are
still missing), some of whom – it is reasonably believed – he personally

"Serbs say they recognize many local Albanians in the ranks of the German
KFOR. Probably KLA members recruited in Albania…KFOR denies this…I’ve
personally seen KLA Commanders with their escort – all [illegally] armed –
entering KFOR bases with KFOR ID cards and never a delay."]


[Zoran reports: "Early in the KFOR/KLA occupation, Dutch/German Baklava Units
gave local Serbs 24 hours to hand in all their weapons. (note that the KLA
has been given 3 months and still counting….) The naïve Serbs complied. A few
weeks later, the Dutch/German troops entered the Serbian quarter in broad
daylight, fired some warning shots over the heads of Serbs who were gathered
near a church and dragged people from their houses. Serbian witness say they
grabbed people by the hair and pulled them out while kicking them…

"The Dutch/German troops arrested the Serbian Mayor and two other Serbs,
accusing them of ‘war crimes’. There is no credible evidence to support these
charges, though the Albanian side has spread rumors that documents discovered
in a cellar of one house implicated the Mayor."]

Natasha: "Yes, that arrest was spectacular, just like that. I heard that KFOR
had masks. They arrested the doctor and the Mayor [and a restaurant owner.]
They accused them of war crimes.
"Nine people were seized altogether. The second group of six was just
ordinary people. They had been working with the International Red Cross which
wants to evacuate old and sick people. The six were told they could leave.
Then KFOR arrested them at the checkpoint."

[Zoran reports: "From reliable international sources I learned the arrests
are an attempt to turn these people into "important witnesses" in a made-up
war crimes case against Serbs, not because of real evidence.

"Here’s the strategy: first they isolate the Serbs, then they wear them out,
then they kick them out – after extracting the people Albanians accuse of
being ‘war criminals’. To this end, they come up with all kinds of
justifications for keeping the last remaining Serb civilians in this
monstrous new ghetto."]


Natasha: "The people who left that mixed part of the town the first day
didn’t have time to take any luggage or personal belongings. Not even
personal documents. A lower level German officer who was friendly and kind
did provide us with an armed escort [so we could get some basic necessities]
and even helped with luggage. But soon after that he disappeared; we [Serbs]
never saw him again.
"In another case a common Dutch soldier saw an Albanian coming from a burning
house. The Dutch soldier wanted to shoot at the arsonist but his officer
stopped him, and they quarreled. We didn’t see that soldier later either.
Their practice in general was that they would change the people who patrol
the Serbian area with the intention obviously that these people not get
friendly with the Serbs.


Natasha: "In another case a Serbian woman was about to deliver. She wanted to
go the maternity ward in the Orahovac hospital. Ever since KFOR’s arrival,
Albanians comprise the entire staff at this hospital. She got a KFOR escort
and was taken to this local hospital; they said it would be a difficult
delivery and to go to the larger town, Prizen. KFOR provided escort to
Prizen. The delivery was difficult and in front of KFOR the hospital staff
said that she should stay for at least 24 hours but as soon as KFOR had left,
they kicked her out into the corridor. So she spent the night on a bench with
the new baby."
[Editor’s note: Natasha then recounts how when KFOR finally came and brought
this woman and her baby back to Orahovac, her relative complained to a Dutch
commanding officer. The officer replied: 'She's alive isn’t she? Why


[Editor’s note: In August, Natasha fled from Orahovac to Belgrade. There she
and other women with relatives in Orahovac pressed the Yugoslav government to
intervene. The government negotiated with KFOR for two convoys of women to go
to Orahovac with KFOR escort.

Natasha was on the second trip. After a brief visit, the woman met at the
Serbian Orthodox Church so KFOR could take them back to the checkpoint.]

Natasha: "I was there visiting my parents for three hours after a whole night
of traveling and harassment: more time at KFOR’s checkpoint then with my
family. After the visit a crowd gathered at the church. They wanted their
children to leave Orahovac. KFOR didn’t want a scene so they let us get on
the truck with the children. It was quite crowded.
"Back at the checkpoint, they divided us women from the children. They made a
list of the people who came in with the convoy, and they said those people
could leave but the children had to go back [to Orahovac]."


Natasha: "The children started crying; they wanted to go with us. We tried to
convince KFOR to let the children go; they said if one "extra" person leaves
they would not provide an escort. And already Albanians were gathering
around, kind of watching what was happening. And it was getting dark.
"The trick was that the KFOR would bring us back only to our bus and from
there on it would be completely unsafe.

"The whole scene was one of horror, the children crying, us women trying to
convince KFOR. The Dutch commander shouted: 'ENOUGH! Just those who came
should go back on the truck and the children must go back where they came.'
So there was more crying and the women were crying and shouting, and he
screamed: 'ENOUGH!' The children were forced to go back."

INTERVIEW # 2 – Miriana

Miriana, whom we interviewed second, said the women went next to Pristina,
capital of Kosovo. Six women met with Mr. Ivancev[sp?], an assistant to UN
Kosovo Chief Bernard Kouchner.

Miriana: "We told him that this really felt like a concentration camp and
that that should happen at the gate to the 21st century was astonishing. Each
told her story separately. He said he didn't know too much about Serbs in
Orahovac, he was at that duty only a month and a half. We told him it’s
actually a humanitarian catastrophe. He was apologetic.
"He wrote down all we said. He said he’d be talking to Mr. Kouchner in the
afternoon and would then contact us. We gave him our mobile phone number and
told him where we were staying. He promised to call.
"He did respect his word and called about 5 or 6. He talked to our translator
Aleksander and apologized because it was Tuesday and he couldn’t go before
Friday. We agreed to meet him Friday noontime at the Turkish checkpoint [at
or near Pristina].
[Natasha reports that a Yugoslav representative in Pristina, Mr. Tomovich,
negotiated with KFOR for an armed escort as well as the presence of a doctor
and medical supplies on the trip.]


Miriana: "We stayed in the Serb-run 'Center for Peace and Tolerance'. The
conditions were quite awful. We didn’t have a place to sleep. We didn’t have
water, current or food. It was really quite difficult but we kept in our
minds the conditions of our families in Orahovac so we were just waiting for
this Friday to come so we could go and see our families again and try and
help our families.
"Right across from the Center were food stores. But we couldn't cross the
street and buy because we were Serbs. So we gave the soldiers money to go buy
stuff for us. Our translators or these soldiers would cross the street and
buy apples or something."


Miriana: "Four in the morning the water came and we quickly got ready. 9:30
in the morning we got out in the yard to wait for KFOR escort. Two Yugoslav
representatives waited with us. But the escort did not come. Ten in the
morning came; eleven came; 11:30. We were losing hope that we’d be able to
get to the Turkish checkpoint at noon. Our representative [name
unintelligible] said it seemed that the German KFOR troops [in command at
Orahovac] were now demanding a signed permission by the International Red
Cross for us to get to Orahovac.
"We saw that something had failed. So we said to a British Captain, he was in
uniform" 'Give us an escort; let’s go now.'

"So that guy, whom we would be able to recognize now among a million NATO
troops, went to KFOR headquarters. And he came back and asked, 'Could you
perhaps go to Orahovac tomorrow but without an escort and without a
translator; and if you agree, you must respect whatever orders the German
command there in Orahovac gives you." It would be just us without an escort.
Just the women without even the doctor. We were to come at 8 AM and strictly
obey the German command.

"So we said even that way we would go but we wanted a written document where
the conditions would be spelled out. This British officer said: no written
document. We insisted. He said no.

"Another night was coming. When it was obvious that these negotiations would
fail, we said, 'All right, give us an escort so we can go back to the rest of
Serbia.' Immediately he said OK; in 45 minutes we would get an escort.

'You see we had insisted a document exist so that in case we disappeared
there would at least be a record. The bus we were using was from Serbia, with
large Cyrillic letters. So it really sounded like that, that we would
disappear. They could spin the story this way: they had tried to arrange a
trip that was guarded but the women insisted on going on their own against
KFOR’s wishes and then this terribly regrettable thing happened. Due to the
Albanians’ desire for revenge against the Serbian oppressors, etc., etc. It
was so transparent that even a little child could see through it. We had
hoped that on this trip we would find some good people among the occupation
forces, that there could be some good people but we saw that there are none."


Simca lived in Belgrade for many years but has maintained close ties with
family and friends in Orahovac, calling and visiting frequently.

Simca: "Until the ninth of April I had phone contact. After that I was just
guessing. The connection between Belgrade and Pristina worked almost all the
time but this Metohija area, towards Albania, the phone lines were down.
During the bombing our contact was through the mail; it took 20 days,
sometimes a month, but we kept in touch. You have to understand that since
June we’ve been pressuring the Yugoslav government to organize some visit
[Simca was one of two women who went on the first trip back to Orahovac.]

Simca: "On this trip there were just two women from Orahovac. I was one. We
had three large trucks with humanitarian supplies. When we got to the Dutch
checkpoint in Orahovac the Dutch officer said one of the trucks could proceed
into the Serbian area but that we, the two women, could not. They would
unload the truck to see what was on it and then they would let in the second
"I was afraid I would not be able to see my relatives at all. I started to
cry and I begged one of the soldiers: "Please. Please." And he just waved his
hand as if too say, "Go back to the group, go back to the others."

"Suddenly I saw this man nearby, a civilian; he was my Serbian neighbor and I
was surprised. His face is maybe similar to an Albanian. I said, 'How come
you can roam around?' 'And he said, 'Oh, they’re confused; they think I’m an
Albanian.' So he was free and I said, 'Look, please don’t tell my mother I’m
here. My mother has a heart problem. I didn’t want my neighbor to tell her
that I’m there and then if I’m not able to see them she might get sick.'

"When Albanians go through this checkpoint they’re not even stopped. They
just wave and KFOR waves back; it’s just us that are stopped. Albanians clap
their hands and shout 'NA –TO, NA – TO!' And the Dutch people are very
friendly towards the Albanians.

"This neighbor of mine did not listen to my advice. He went and told my
family. And suddenly I saw my brother and sister walking towards me. The
Dutch soldiers immediately formed themselves into a row and put up a barbed
wire barricade. So it was I, then these soldiers, then this barbed wire, and
then my brother and sister on the other side. I was crying on one side of the
barricade and my brother and sister were crying on the other side."

[Simca was weeping as she spoke.]

Simca: "I knelt down and begged him in English, 'This is my brother and my
sister, please help me.' And he just waved his hands, saying, 'Nein, Nein.'
The use here of the word "Nein" here confused the interviewer and there
followed this exchange between him, the translator and Simca:

Jared: "Is that the Dutch word for 'No?' That’s not a Dutch word."
Simca: "I thought if I addressed him in English he would answer in English
but no, he said, ‘Nein Nein'. "

Jared: "But that’s a German word."

Simca: "I understand the difference."

Jared: "But he was Dutch."

Translator: "She knows that. That’s her point."

[Simca continued with her report:]

Simca: "Then this 'friend' of ours, this Dutch Major appeared, and I told him
this was my brother and sister. He showed some mercy and told the soldiers
that these two, my brother and sister, could pass through. So I was able to
hug my brother and sister.
"My brother does not show his emotions. I didn’t see him cry at my father’s
funeral. But when he came and hugged me he cried too. It was terrible. The
other people heard that someone had come from Belgrade and suddenly all of
them were walking towards the checkpoint en masse though it was not a safe
thing to do.
"Once he saw so many people coming, this friend of ours, this Dutch Major,
decided that maybe there would be an incident so perhaps it would be better
to let the women in. So we got in. It’s difficult to put in words what
happened. People surrounded us asking us questions: 'What’s happening?' 'Are
we forgotten?' 'How can we get out?' Questions and tears and worries.
"My mother was just 15 yards away but she couldn’t reach me because there was
such a crowd. They looked at us as if we’d come from another planet, as if we
were Gods, desperate to touch us and ask us questions. These people don’t get
newspapers; they don’t get TV; the telephones don’t work.
"This Major, I was begging him to let my sister and her little children out.
And he said: 'No! Only those who came in can get out.'"

Simca: "The procedure for getting in was astonishing. They photographed our
ID documents. A woman searched me. I had to lift my arms and spread my legs
and she was touching me everywhere as if she was looking for weapons. Just
like in the movies. I felt bad before and I felt horrible afterwards.
"First they look at the car, they look under the seats of the car, they look
around and inside. They photograph the documents. Then they do this search
with their hands around your body and then they do that to the next person
and they tell you to stay aside while they do that to the next person. I had
taken cookies and chocolate for my sister’s children and they crushed it up
and turned it over and inside out.

Simca was only allowed two and a half hours visiting in Orahovac.

Simca: "As we were getting ready to leave suddenly there was a number of
young people, boys and girls, who were all packed. They appeared immediately
with suitcases; the same thing happened with the second convoy. I didn’t
spend much time with my mother; I have to admit that. I was concentrating all
my effort on how I could save my sister and her young children. The youngest
is two.
Simca: "When we were leaving they made sure to keep people separated. There
were the two of us, then a row of soldiers, then the barbed wire, another row
of soldiers on the other side. Then the German police, with red berets made
another wall. We were to leave at 5:30 but it took until 10:30. The problem
was that three young girls slipped through the lines and got into the jeep of
a journalist who was with us. This journalist fiercely quarreled with KFOR,
demanding that the girls be allowed to go.
"There were more and more people coming from the Serbian section to the
checkpoint. This journalist said he wouldn’t let these girls be taken from
the jeep; KFOR would have to shoot him. So the Major, seeing all these people
and fearing trouble after this long quarrel, let the jeep leave with the
three young girls. He was very angry. He said, "OK, you can leave. But you
have not respected the Rules agreed on for this visit!"
* * *

[In a later interview (October 31), Simca recounted another conversation with
Mr. Ivancev, the Russian assistant to UN Kosovo Chief Kouchner, which took
place October 29. Ivancev told her they were holding the Serbs hostage in
Orahovac because the Albanians had given KFOR a list of 200 war criminals.]

Simca: "Ivancev said, 'The war criminals are hiding among the Serbs.' I asked
him: 'Then what about the children? Why have you refused to release the
children for four months?' He looked miserable. 'That's the question I asked
Mr. Kouchner,' he said. And he looked so miserable I almost felt sorry for

This situation cries out for IMMEDIATE action. The lives of an entire
community are at stake. They have been sentenced; they are granted NO RIGHT
OF APPEAL. The Orahovac women have asked us to act NOW before more people are

An International Humanitarian Committee on Orahovac has been formed. It
includes the Orahovac women in Serbia, people in Holland and the US. Please
join with us and help spread the message.

If you would like to help with this effort in any way please contact:
SaveFamilies at


Join the Committee. To join just Email or write us at the PO Box listed
below. Join personally or in the name of your group and tell us you want to
Participate in and/or support the Delegation to Orahovac. This International
Delegation will GO TO ORAHOVAC and bring out anyone who wants to leave. If
you can send a contribution please do; any money not used to pay the
Committee's expenses will be donated to the people of Orahovac for
humanitarian relief. Send contributions to: Orahovac Committee c/o Global
Reflexion, PO Box 59262, 1040 KG, Amsterdam, Holland.
Please send the following message to the Dutch officials listed below and ask
your political, labor, business or other organizations to do likewise. Also
contact your local Dutch embassy and let them know how you feel by phone and
email and fax. Here's the proposed text but feel free to change it any way
you wish:
"WE DEMAND that KFOR troops guarantee safety, food, water, electricity and
phones - normal living conditions - for the Serbs of Orahovac.

WE DEMAND that KFOR troops guarantee the safe movement of ANYONE in Orahovac.

WE DEMAND that KFOR immediately institute a PROTECTED bus route from Orahovac
to the Yugoslav-controlled part of Serbia."




Mr. J.J. van Aartsen, Minister of Foreign Affairs –
m at

Mr. F.H.G. de Grave, Minister of Defense –

Mrs. J. van Nieuwenhoven, President of the Second Chambre of the parliament -
Nieuwenhoven at

Mrs. Margreeth de Boer, President of the parliamentary commission on Foreign
Affairs - M.deBoer at

Mr. Gerrit Valk, President of the parliamentary commission on Defense -
Valk at

Government parties:

Mr. A.P.W. Melkert, President of the Labor Party –
A.Melkert at

Mr. H.F. Dijkstal, President of the Liberal Party –
H.Dijkstal at

Mr. Th.C. de Graaf , President of the Democratic Party –
Th.deGraaf at

Opposition parties:

Mr. J.G. de Hoop Scheffer, President of the Christen-Democratic Party
deHoopScheffer at

Mr. P. Rosenmoller, President of the Green Left Party –
P.rosenmoller at

Mr. J.G.C.A. Marijnissen, President of the Socialist Party –
J.Marijnissen at

Mr. B.J. van der Vlies, President of the Protestant Reformed Party -
B.J.vanderVlies at

Mr. L. van Dijke, President of the Reformatoric Party –
L.vanDijke at

Fax numbers:

Mr. W. Kok, Prime Minister: ++ 31 70 356 4683
Mr. J.J. van Aartsen, Minister of Foreign Affairs: ++ 31 70 348 5098
Mr. F.H.G. de Grave, Minister of Defense: ++ 31 70 318 7888
Mrs. J. van Nieuwenhoven, Pres. Second Chambre of the parliament: ++ 31 70
365 4122
Government parties:

The Labour Party: ++ 31 70 318 2797
The Liberal Party: ++ 31 70 318 2924
Democratic Party: ++ 31 70 318 3625
Opposition parties:
The Christen-Democratic Party: ++ 31 70 318 2602
The Green Left Party: ++ 31 70 318 2685
The Socialist Party: ++ 31 70 318 3803
The Protestant Reformed Party: ++ 31 70 318 2847
The Reformatoric Party: ++ 31 70 318 2933
The Protestant Reformed Union: ++ 31 70 318 2665

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