Western "Interests" and the "Great Game"

Jay Moore research at SPAMneravt.com
Thu Nov 18 07:00:09 MST 1999

The post from L Proyect in response to mine is a most astonishing response,
and it seems I am not alone in seeing it as such.  The attachment by Proyect
was provocative, simply because the Pro-Milosevich anti Albanian current in
the European left has actively been using material of this kind (and who can
test its veracity?) to sabotage attempts by European trades unionists to
take on an elementary responsibility to assist fellow workers in Kosovo and
earlier in Bosnia.  This took the form in 1994 of accusing a convoy
organised by the Timex workers in Dundee to take basic supplies -
non-perishable foodstuffs, clothing and sanitary items - to miners and their
families in Tuzla, Bosnia (a completely multi-ethnic, working-class
district) of using it as a front for carrying military supplies.  Of course
this was a lie, and it amounted to an attempt to put the lives of those on
the convoy at risk, because it had to cross areas were both Ushtasi and
Bosnian-Serb militias were active.  Proyect's attachment seemed to me to be
declaring open season for both imperialist and Russian forces to physically
attack any similar attempt to come to the assistance of Chechen refugees, by
its implicit syllogism that Chechens and bin Laden are one and the same.
Proyect chose to post this piece, and I asked him, albeit bluntly, why he
had done so, and what were his political views.  He chooses to see this as
some kind of ad hominem attack on him, when in fact it was directed at the
article and his political act in publicising it without comment.
The truly bizarre, and arguably silly feature of his comment is accusing me
of being some kind of cyber recruiting sergeant preying on independent
Marxists.  As Paul says, there are better things to do.  As it happens I am
a member of no party, and have not been for 22 years.  Maybe I have hit a
nerve by raising an issue that has been troublesome for the administration
of this list in the past.  To be charitable, I think he is being over
sensitive, for what I wrote was not abusive.  I append something that a
friend found on a Newsgroup and forwarded to me recently as a good example
of "a
spittled-dripped challenge" that would, in my opinion put its author beyond
the pale on e-lists:

So you are entering the e-list fray - good luck Al!  Here's an example of
what you might get thrown at you - picked up from a so-called Trotskyist
newsgroup.  I wouldn't bother going the newgroup route - too many arseholes
around.  Moderated subscription lists are more sane - I guess that is the
kind of thing you are on.  Let me know which it is, and if it's OK maybe
I'll join in too.

"Subject: Re: Gallup poll: Cubans support socialism
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 16:59:48 GMT
From: lnp3 at panix.com (Louis Proyect)
Organization: Columbia University
Newsgroups: alt.politics.socialism.trotsky

On Tue, 9 Nov 1999 09:25:21 -0600, "William Fason"
<w.fason at worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>Amnesty International reports that there some 600 political prisoners and
>prisoners of conscience in Cuban jails in 1997.  According to the newest
>report, the Castro government currently holds more than 100 prisoners of

Fason, you stupid motherfucker, considering the Amnesty International
at face value, it is remarkable that there are only 100 political
prisoners given the economic blockade and constant military
provocations from US imperialism. The United States imprisoned the
entire leadership of the American Trotskyist movement during WWII for
its antiwar stance. After the war, thousands of socialists lost their
jobs, while some went to prison for advocating Marxist ideas. Given
the context of the violent and nonstop assaults on Cuban sovereignty
for the past 40 years, it is remarkable that there are as few
political prisoners as there are. What kind of fucked-up stupid head
liberal are you and why are you trolling on a Trotskyist newsgroup?
Are you Watson's latest alter ego?  "

>Proyect's attachment has all the hallmarks of the pro-Milosovich,
>anti-Albanian front so active in Europe.  A common thread is that in both
>Balkans and Caucasus the relics of a former 'socialist' state now dominated
>by Orthodox Christianity and floating atop the worst form of right-wing
>nationalism, in the manner of grease on a stewpot, are pitted against
>minorities.  So bin Laden is financing the Chechen forces - what a
>  Was Proyect for or against Clinton's bombing of Afghanistan and the
>  Is he for or against Yeltsin's onslaught on Chechnya?

Whitlock, you have a disease. It is called self-righteousness. With a
spittled-dripped challenge like this, I wouldn't dream of answering you. I
have thrown off two Movement for Socialism people since this list started.
First, Steve Drury. Then Bernie Wool.

If you continue writing this kind of "are you still beating your wife"
bullshit, I will be happy to make you number 3. You and Wool and Drury came
to this list because you know that there are hundreds of independent
Marxists you would like to recruit to your sect. Unlike Wool and Drury, you
managed to behave yourself for the 2 or so weeks you were on the list. Now I
see the fangs are bared and the fur is sprouting. Let me tell you something,
Comrade, I didn't put this list together so small sectarian outfits can
"intervene". The next time you grill me like some cheap lawyer, I will throw
you out faster than you can say Jack Robinson.
Louis Proyect


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