Mac on DSP

Jose G. Perez jgperez at SPAMfreepcmail.com
Tue Nov 23 20:05:37 MST 1999



>>Indeed, and this is why Marxists are equally opposed to cops as the
front-line of the state apparatus.  We are equally opposed to them
regardless of whether they are 'unarmed' bobbies 'of yore' or tooled up
cops of today.

>>Now apply that correct insight of yours above to East Timor!

OK, here goes.

We OFTEN call on the bourgeoisie to take its cops and enforce laws that
represent concessions to the proletariat, for example, enforce labor safety
standards laws, arrest racist and right wing thugs, etc.

Why then is it impermissible to ask the bourgeoisie's United Nations to take
its cops to enforce "international laws" that represent concessions to the
struggles of working people, such as the right of "non self governing
territories"  to self-determination and independence?

Well, because ... your insistence on this false principle has now put you in
the camp of those who say oppressed nations do NOT have a right to
independence, it is meaningless and so forth and so on.

You do not see a retreat by imperialism here because you're not approaching
this politically, but on the basis of formal categories.

Indonesia=third world country
Australia = imperialist country

Which is worse, an Indonesian or an Australian military presence. You have
no difficulty answering the question. Your answer has nothing to do with the
actual situation in E Timor. In fact, it doesn't matter whether we're
talking about East Timor or somewhere else, your answer is the same.

>At a time when Australian and NZ military engagement abroad is at a level
>never seen before in our histories - outside of World War - and when there
*>is *no critical debate or investigation at all* of these activities, it is
>*more important than ever* that Marxists should be demystifying them, and
>the 'humanitarian' mystique around them, not caling for more intervention.

Yeah, but don't forget all this huffing and puffing by the Australian
military is brought to you courtesy of the U.S. Pentagon. Without the U.S.
force-projection capacity, which Australia and NZ lack, --as well as a
Marine Expeditionary Force sitting just off shore to hold the Aussie's
hands-- there's no way this mission could have been mounted. So Australia
and News Zealand get to be just as aggressive ... as Clinton wants them to
be.

BTW I do believe the LAST time Australia and New Zealand were so
significantly militarily engages wasn't the world war, but Korea and
Vietnam.

José



-----Original Message-----
From: Philip L Ferguson <PLF13 at student.canterbury.ac.nz>
To: marxism at lists.panix.com <marxism at lists.panix.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: Mac on DSP


>Jose G. Perez writes:
>
>>Behind the action of every state, and socalled multinational (in reality
>>imperialist alliance) organizations, stands the bourgeoisies'  "bodies of
>>armed men." An unarmed London cop of yore was no less an expression  of
this
>>than an American police SWAT team operating from armored personnel
carriers
>>with M-16s.
>
>Indeed, and this is why Marxists are equally opposed to cops as the
>front-line of the state apparatus.  We are equally opposed to them
>regardless of whether they are 'unarmed' bobbies 'of yore' or tooled up
>cops of today.
>
>Now apply that correct insight of yours above to East Timor!
>
>
>>Imperialism being what it is, in  99.9% of the cases this is a no-brainer.
>>The case of East Timor, however, was the other 0.1%. In that case the
policy
>>of the imperialist countries was to formally recognize the right of the
>>Timorese to control their OWN destiny; it was a policy of RETREAT from
their
>>previous policy of direct subjugation of the people of East Timor through
>>their surrogates in Jakarta.
>
>No, the ruling classes in the West did not *retreat*.  They advanced.
>Instead of relying on a surrogate in the form of a Third World government
>(Jakarta) they have moved to a more *direct* form of control through their
>own imperialist agency (the UN) and through their own troops.
>
>I find it difficult to believe that you view the UN, the representative of
>imperialism globally, as preferable to a Third World country like
Indonesia.
>
>If the world is divided between imperialist (oppressor) and
>imperialist-dominated (oppressed) nations, as Lenin held (indeed, this was
>central to his theory of imperialism), then the UN is clearly an instrument
>of imperialism.
>
>For East Timor to become an imperialist neo-colony is no advance from being
>a province of Indonesia.  And the people on the left who have facilitated
>that shift have done no favours to the East Timorese and no favours to the
>workers of their countries (eg Australian and NZ workers) by encouraging
>Canberra and Wellington in large-scale foreign intervention.
>
>Last night the weekly 'Tuesday Documentary' on TV1 here in New Zealand was
>an hour-long special called 'Keeping the Peace', all about NZ
>'peacekeepers'.  The list of places where NZ troops are and have been
>stationed over the past decade was really quite extraordinary - it crossed
>the globe from Cambodia to Sierra Leone to Angola and Mozambique, to Sinai
>to the Gulf, to parts of the Pacific.
>
>The 'documentary' did not investigate any of the political reasons for this
>substantial list of enagagements.  Instead it focussed entirely on the
>'peacekeepers' themselves, who they were, what they felt, what nice helpful
>activities they were involved in, what their husbands and wives were doing
>and felt, blah blah.
>
>At a time when Australian and NZ military engagement abroad is at a level
>never seen before in our histories - outside of World War - and when there
*>is *no critical debate or investigation at all* of these activities, it is
>*more important than ever* that Marxists should be demystifying them, and
>the 'humanitarian' mystique around them, not caling for more intervention.
>
>Cheers,
>Phil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


---

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