Present-day Class Distinctions (on Marxism)

Xxxzx Xyyxyz Xxxzx at
Sat Oct 2 19:01:56 MDT 1999

Charles wrote:

>and change is my thing.

  I was wrong to couple you with Carrol, and I should not have made
this personal.

  My point is that the present is a great deal different from the
past, i.e. the present is change, and this means that theory must
change if it is materialist.


>Charles: No , but since it is exactly like an old bourgeois
>argument, it makes sense that you should say how your argument is
>different than the old bourgeois argument.

  I don't know what you are refering to. Tell me who it was that
represented this "bourgeois" argument, and I will be able to see my
differences or not. I am interested in what it is about this argument
-- i.e. that classes have become more defined as the productive
forces have become more defined -- is bourgeois?

On Feudalism:
>In feudalism, the lords and church hierarchy had control of a
>certain percentage of the >use-values produced by the peasants in
>the form of tribute and tithes.

  Given that this is true, why is it not correct to say that land
lords and priest are of the same class? You have said they both
"control" the serf's use-value. Perhaps it is a matter of varation in

  In this case, of course, your distinction of class would make for
more than one class in the present day as well. What I am saying is
Charles, if we can divide up, and we can only divide up, Feudal
society into the alluvion of classes that it has, it can only be by
means of different kinds of relationships to the means of production.

  No one can doubt that relations are focused on and based around
ownership of land; because this was the primary productive force at
the time. But simply defining class solely in regards to this is to
pretend that human society is defined by nothing but its relations to
the most basic and raw of produtive force of society.


___________________ janitor

"In those days, after the defeat of the Paris Commune, history made
slow organisational and educational work the task of the day."

Vladimir Lenin, Tasks of the Proletariat in Our Revolution

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