[Re: Jihad and Revolution in Chechnya]
sev at SPAMcyberia.net.lb
Sat Aug 12 08:41:43 MDT 2000
Dear Comrade Abu Nasr:
It seems u have totally misunderstood me or my poor english!
Sufism is mystical and sufis are Muslims. There are lot of Sufi orders
and yes it is based on personal experience of the person who is to be guided
by the murshid (i think that's what he is called) through the direct and
correct path, ie tariqat.
Scholars agree that the term Islamism means the Fundamentalism or
radicalism of Islam...call it anything u like..actually there are alot of
labels...but it is by convention that Islamism is the ism of Islam (i said
sufis hate islamism, and u quoted me wrong!) .Sufists are
depoliticized...true they have fought in national struggles and i mentioned
that....to answer why would be to go deep into circumstances of the time and
where this special struggle was taking place......but Sufis are
depoliticized...we should agree on that... Islam is din wa dawlah..ie
religion and state...Sufis are secular towards the State..and reject an
Islamic state like that of KSA or Iran...or that's what i thought..i hope
u'll correct me
Actually, the internet provides us with alot of information...alot of
Chechen official and unofficial sites have put pictures and
interviews...look at them and then compare them with the Mujahideen who
fought in Afghanistan....i'll even send u the names of organizations which
do u think imam shamil or the other 2 would have been accepted if they
have not fought wars? ohh fundamentalism does not only dislike sufism...but
it has called for many Jihads against them....
you assume that Chechnya is an islamic country with an islamic society
etc...and hence the soil of local islamic movements...can u name me some
local islamist movements?..or even better, name me any movement during the
Soviet era...or even before 1920!...or trace some non-Sufi islamic presence
in the social institutions or the society at large in chechnya...
my conclusions are subjective...that i know...but i'm drawing my
conclusions from the data available to me...i hope u'll support your
arguments...because i want to c if i'm right in my analysis or wrong....
Let us look at the picture from a better standpoint and try and
understand the facts before categorizing them as straight or deviant.
----- Original Message -----
From: Abu Nasr <abu-nasr at usa.net>
To: <marxism at lists.panix.com>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Re: Jihad and Revolution in Chechnya]
> Sorry but this is simply not true. Sufism is the mystical aspect of
> not something outside or alien to Islam. Because Sufis historically seek
> personal subjective "divine experience" some of them are unobservant of
> traditional norms, but most are more observant of Islamic law than others,
> anything. The Qadiriya order was founded by Abd al-Qadir al-Jilani in
> medieval Iraq and he was a very orthodox Muslim, a follower of the Hanbali
> legal school, in fact, the one prevalent in Saudi Arabia today. Sufism
> times been quietist, pacifist; at times militant. You simply can't make a
> statement that Sufis are unpolitical or oppose violence. The Turkish
> Janissaries were members of a Sufi order (Bektashi), as were many
> movements in 19th century North Africa (although by the 20th century the
> in French controlled territory appear to have been "tamed."
> often are critical of Sufism, because fundamentalism focuses its attention
> implementation of Islamic law, not on subjective spirituality, and because
> Sufism with its personalism often hosts lots of local lore and belief
> worship of Sufi saints) that fundamentalists regard as alien to pure
> But Sufis in no way "hate Islam," they definitely consider themselves part
> Popular Islam virtually everywhere from Morocco to Indonesia has become
> infused with Sufi currents over the centuries. Fundamentalists, virtually
> everywhere criticse Sufi ideas and practices that they find unauthentic,
> they don't totally oppose the Sufi legacy. All the fundamentalists look
> on the Imam Shamil as an Islamic hero.
> Anyhow to say that Islam has no history in Chechnya is just totally
> I have no idea what percentage of Chechen fighters are locals or
> My sense is that the Russian government is trying to exaggerate the
> of Arabs and Afghans and play up the "Islamic terrorism" idea to try to
> and Israeli sympathy. But regardless of that, certainly Chechnya is a
> region and there's plenty of local basis for Islamic orientated political
> movements growing out of local soil. That doesn't change the
> circumstances in which the fighting in Chechnya takes place, (such as the
> position of Russia as a victim if US pressure and exploitation) but I do
> we must keep our facts straight.
> Revolutionary greetigns!
> Abu Nasr
> "sevag " <sev at cyberia.net.lb> wrote:
> When discussing Islamism and specially militant revolutions, one
> not forget the social dimension, or what Hrair Dekmejian would classsify
> a general topic called the crisis milieux. The history of Islam has seen
> such revolutions or struggles, but what has been taking place in Chechnya
> has a special factor.
> First of all, the history of Islamism in Chechnya is no history at
> The anti-tsarist or anti-russian movements were mainly carried out by 3
> muslim leaders in Chechnya and Daghestan. These are Sheikh Mansour, Ghazi
> Mollah and Imam Shamil. All 3 were Sufis. Actually the Chechens have known
> nothing but Sufism as a way of life. Sufism is totally depoliticized, and
> Sufis are spiritual and anti-militants. However, the national struggles
> against the oppressor made the Sufis break their codes of morality.
> this in mind it will be clear that the Sufis hate Islamism, and this is
> case in every corner of the world. Actually the Sufis in Chechnya which
> from 2 main orders: the Naqshbandiyya and the Qadiriyya hated Islamist
> fighters and intruders alot. History tell us so.
> With the collapse of the USSR and its institutions, everything changed
> but Sufism. Sufism is not an institutional Islam. Hence u don't need
> etc... All those non-Sufis were prosecuted during the KGB years, and even
> they survived the KGB they wouldn't have in their everyday life. In 1994
> Russian government claimed that there were Wahhabis in Daghestan and
> Chechnya.... where did they come from???? specially in Chechnya.
> The revolution in Chechnya is imported...it is not the fight of the
> Chechen people...but it is those whom i like to call "ideological
> mercenaries" of Afghan Mujahideen who were from different origins...for
> example Amir Khattab is one of the leaders of the Chechen revolution and
> is an arab of either Saudi or Jordanain origin (most probably from the
> desert b/w these 2 countries). True that there are Chechen leaders, but
> these are very few and most of them fought against the Taliban and the
> Mujahideen when they were soldiers or commanders in the Red Army!
> What's happening in Chechnya is not a revolution at all...it is the
> home of those leftovers of Islamist homeless fighters and it seems the
> Russian government is too corrupt itself to deal with them.
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