Talking to Christians was Re: To CYeats was Re: a quick query
mikalac at SPAMworldnet.att.net
Mon Aug 14 02:04:29 MDT 2000
seems like the powerful, whatever their occupation, tend to work
together as a class with common interests and likewise the powerless
work with each other as a class.
powerful church prelates share common interests and work toward common
goals with powerful political prelates. that's one class.
powerless church parish priests identify with the powerless workers with
whom they share common interests and goals. that's another class.
in other words, we have to look for "classes" within the church as well
as within the polity. sort of like the church and political bourgeosie
vs. the church and political proletariat.
Gary Maclennan wrote:
> Hi Christopher,
> Relating to Christians is a tricky thing. I once had a book that detailed
> Ernst Bloch's discussions with radical Protestant theologians. From memory
> Bloch emphasised the figure of Prometheus as against Christ. Very interesting.
> I also have a book by Garaudy of the French Communist Party, but have never
> gotten around to reading it. I also have a little rare pamphlet on a
> Catholic Communist seminar in Melbourne in 1944. given the later
> anti-communism that the Church played such a role in it is interesting to
> note that th4e Church here was unsure which way to jump during WW2
> The other great 'meeting' of Church and Communists was under the banner of
> liberation theology in the 60s/70s, about which I know scandalously little.
> So there have been periods of dialogue but it all demands on the balance of
> forces If there is something in it for the church it will dialog, but
> fundamentally it tends to opt for capitalism or power rather than opt for
> the poor. The Left is decimated around the world at present so the Church
> has very little interest in talking to us, except to see how it can push
> for an advantage. I think that this is how to understand the Pope's visit
> to Cuba for example.
> Having said al that it is vital that we talk to the Christian radicals and
> we should talk on their territory. We should demand that they have an
> ethical viewpoint and that they work for the Kingdom of god on earth. That
> was really the spirit behind my prologue. Whether I succeeded or not is
> another question.
> At 17:17 13/08/00 -0500, you wrote:
> >Hello to you Gary (and to the other list members),
> > I have to admit, mate, that part of me envies the polemics that you are
> >getting to have a go at right now over your prologue ; and sadly, here I am
> >watching from the edges. I have a question: when you, and the other readers
> >of this list, have had similar discussions with religious folk in the past
> >do they tend to have a good understanding of Marx (in whatever form Marx may
> >take) and mainly want to argue interpretations? Or do they tend to rely on
> >'faith', dialectics and such things be damned?
> >Peace and Love,
> >Christopher Yeats
> >Minister of Coincidences
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Gary MacLennan <g.maclennan at qut.edu.au>
> >To: <marxism at lists.panix.com>
> >Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2000 4:05 PM
> >Subject: To CYeats was Re: a quick query
> > >
> > > I am currently embroiled in a dispute with a Dominican priest over my
> > > prologue. > of Nazism. Mind you my opponent has not cited any detail in
> >his attack on
> > > me. I think he knows that the devil is in the detail. > Gary
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