workers councils and democracy?

Norman Mikalac mikalac at
Sat Aug 19 01:26:34 MDT 2000

trying to understand what you are saying.

1. worker's councils don't work?

2. selfishness and acquisitiveness are caused by environmental
conditions w/o any genetic basis?

thanks for your response.


Doyle Saylor wrote:
> Greetings Comrades,
>     In replying to Owen Jones about workers councils Norman Mikalac writes
> about selfish genes,
> Norman,
> human nature being what it is, acquisitive and selfish with an
> undersupply of altruism, how can the "working class" do anything but
> break up inevitably into factions with the consequent struggle for power
> that we see through all of human history in ALL groups of whatever
> "ism".  the "ins" and "outs" of political office, even if elected by
> workers councils with all the requisite democratic features, seeking
> economic advantages over each other and becoming the "haves" and "have
> nots", with or w/o property, all over again with struggle,
> counterrevolution, counter-counter, etc.  we see and theorize about
> utopias, but unless the geneticists can exorcize our selfish and
> acquisitive genes, i can't see how the utopias can flourish.
> Doyle
> Of course you know, Norman, that such thinking is Socio-biology or
> Evolutionary Psychology.  Human nature is hardwired as they would
> proselytize their sermons from the mouth.
> As to your remark about workers councils and election of workers to that,
> that the workers councils or other direct participatory forums for workers
> have gone with the 20th century eludes your arguments.  They don't inspire
> much of anything about workers rule anymore.  And you doom that by using a
> mythic selfish gene.  Two non-existing ideas cancel each other out.  Well of
> course.
> Danielle's comment is direct and to the point, bourgeois or capitalist
> theory of human "nature" plus workers councils amounting to a double dance
> around the ballroom to the tunes and two steps of the twentieth century.  I
> will sit that one out thanks.
> Doyle Saylor

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