jihad and revolution in chechnya

sev sev at SPAMcyberia.net.lb
Sun Aug 20 13:01:29 MDT 2000

Dear Comrade Abu Nasr:
    It is the duty of a human to seek knowledge and seek it rightfully
regardless of self esteem or self defence. Objectivism should preceed
    I tried to explain to you and i will still do; the difference between
ISLAMISM and ISLAM (or islamic).
    I told u sufism has nothing to do with ISLAMISM it is distinct from it
and has suffered alot from Islamist prosecution. I never said Sufism is not
Islam...it is a branch or a brand or call it anything u like...of Islam...
    Now the interesting point is, that the Sufis are depoliticized or
apolitical...but history shows us so many examples of Sufi led
rebellions..including Imam Shamil and the Ghazi mollah and Imam Mansour..all
of these in that area now known as Chechnya and Daghestan....so how come?
    To answer such a question, we should review certain facts. I think we
can categorize them into 2 headlines: one theoretical and hence including
ideology and religion (etc...) and the other is the actual facts or the
political situation...To understand something..u do not look at the
exceptions...u look at its origin and ideology..hence the essence...but
history is full of contradictions and exceptions..hence our first category
does not provide us with the whole picture...and this is how we look at it
    What i'm offering u, is not to change your view about Sufism or Islam
(or Islamism which u clearly do not distinguish from Islam)...but just a
simple step away from your current stance and have a wider look ..change
your angle..Look at the subject and then look at its exceptions or the
    To put it more simply...Imam Shamil who became a symbol to Islamist
revolutionaries worldwide was a Sufi..and we know whom the radical islamist
hate ,,yes the sufis...but why?..i asked u a question and i will ask u
again, do u think they would've liked Imam Shamil if he hadn't done a
political act?...u find it irrelevant?...ok..
    The why of Imam Shamil doing such a thing is to be found in the 2nd
category...Russian oppression on every level...if u were a priest and would
preach each day to trun your other cheek(btw i'm not saying that this is
preaching to turn the other cheek is in sufi theory)..tell me..how many more
days would u preach if u c people suffering by a foreign army? how many days
would u preach knowing that that instant when u r preaching somebody of your
countryman is getting killed because they didn't like the way he walked?
    There is a thin red line if passed the Sufis will act militarily or
interefere politicaly...but when everything is natural and they are left
alone would they ask for an Islamic Republic or making the Shari'a the
actual law of the State?
    I wanna go even further since u know history so well....tell me.. was
the essence of Sufism and in specific the Naqshbandiyya and Qadiriyya orders
in Chechnya and Deaghestan pure or clear Islam?...Didn't they have the ADAT?
ie culture, which includes a different ingredient of mysticism than the
actual islamic religion or the Sunnah and the adat of the prophet?....
    I appologize if i sounded rude in certain lines, but i have clearly
stated to u what is the difference by convention of Islamic and
Islamist..and u seem to use those 2 as one meaning to defend your
    I'm waiting for your reply....and hope our discussion furthers our
comprehension of the issue

Original Message -----
From: Abu Nasr <abu-nasr at usa.net>
To: <marxism at lists.panix.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 4:15 PM
Subject: Re:jihad and revolution in chechnya

> Dear Riad!
> I don't want to go over what I wrote before, but mainly I'm talking about
> social reality and historical reality.  There are lots of examples of
> involved in politics, including the Naqshbandiya running the rebellion in
> Chechnya under Imam Shamil, the Jannisaries (Yeniceriler) in Ottoman
> and all kinds of `ulama' who worked with the state but were members of
> (Sufi orders).  Yes, theoretically, "only God matters" for the Sufis.  But
> life hasn't always been that clear.
> Similarly, what al-Ghazali thought about Sufism is one thing, what they
> become since al-Ghazali is something else.  My point is that since
> Sufi ideas are widely accepted as part of "Islam".  Lots of the
> fundamentalists read al-Ghazali and like him.
> I agree that Sufism is a distinct current in Islam, but what I was trying
> say is that it is incorrect to separate Islam and Sufism and say that
> Chechnya, for example is "Sufi," and so it has "no Islamic heritage," the
> some people were writing.
> Revolutionary greetings!
> Abu Nasr
> Riad Koubaisi <hamman at inco.com.lb> wrote:
>  I am really thrilled of the last disscusion, the are really informative
> specially that they disscused subjects that have to do with the third
> world, but if you please i have to comment on some points :
> although i really admire comrade abu nasser info about sufism but i dont
> agree with him concerning  some points:
> Abu Nasser wrote:
> {Throughout the Muslim world since Abu
> Hamid al-Ghazali died in 1111, Sufism has been a part of established
> Islam.
> Sufism is not some sect; it is a dimension of Islamic thought and
> practice
> that is totally intermingled with other aspects of Islamic thought and
> practice.}
>  Riad:
> Since you mentioned Gazali , I know from what i read and studied about
> him that he considered sufism  the sect that will rescue{ and this
> talking is in his book [al monkiz mn al dlal] the saver from the strays.
> Gazali considering was based on mohamad talk who said my nation will be
> devided  into 71 sect one of them will rescue. and by that i thinkechn
> that sufism is a sect.
> Abu Nasser wrote:
> {You said Islam is "Din wa-dawla" (religion and the state) while Sufis,
> you
> say, are depoliticised or secular.  But this kind of dichotomy doesn't
> exist.
> Many Sufis have insisted on the importance of Islamic law and practice.}
>  RIAD:
>    i dont think so, since sufi believe that state is not important ,to
> them the love of god is every thing.
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1

More information about the Marxism mailing list