Self Determination- Support It!

Louis Proyect lnp3 at
Tue Aug 22 14:12:16 MDT 2000

Tony Abdo:
>Lou, you didn't try too hard..     The Iraqi example above is just one
>case in point.     Editorial support for no fly zones, arbitrary
>division by the US military of Iraqi territory, and continued terrorism
>by the US in the region doesn't register as evidence?

Yeah, but those no fly zones have to do with the Kurds, don't they? What do
we do, call for lifting the no fly zones so that the Iraq air force can
exterminate the Kurds? You really should take the time to spell out your
thinking on the Kurdish rebellion. I think there is no place in your
ideology for it or anything like it.

>Similarly, support for East Timor's independence as a new half-an-island
>state in the Pacific is seen as support for self determination, not as
>redivison under imperial lines.

False. Even the DSP regards the present situation as falling short of
self-determination. You are conflating two different positions, as the
Sunday morning commentators put it.

>Similar plans are floated in ruling circles elsewhere.    Kosovo and the
>idea in vogue in certain circles of dividing Sudan into 2 countries.

Is there a thought buried in here about Sudan? Please don't keep it a secret.

>This constant chatter about socialism and class, is the same old
>obscurantist debate about whether the Viet Cong were worthy of support
>in their self determination struggle, only depending on whether we could
>go whole hog in support of every jot of their political program, or not.

Don't seem to remember that obscurantist debate. I was too busy organizing
antiwar demonstrations and selling Marxist newspapers.

>I'm totally baffled by this.     Millions of people have been able to
>figure out their support for Palestinian self determination, despite the
>fact that they are not even socialists.     Are you trying to say that
>you are unable to make the decison of support, in one direction or
>another, unless you slot the Palestinians and Israelis into categories
>of worker/ petti-bourgeois/ capitalist frames of reference?

Er, yes. Although, the proper distinction is between oppressor and
oppressed nationalities.

Louis Proyect

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