Self Determination- Support It!

Louis Proyect lnp3 at
Sat Aug 26 15:20:37 MDT 2000

Tony, I will allow you the last word on this topic. It can either be this
post, or another one. But there is no point to trying to engage you in a
discussion or debate. It does not produce a better understanding of
Chechnya, East Timor or whatever. It is a discussion about 'principles'
which I would like to keep off this mailing list as much as possible.
Principles are interesting but once they have been stated (if not repeated
a hundred times as in this instance), the law of diminishing returns sets
in. I hope this is clear.

At 03:53 PM 8/26/00 -0500, you wrote:
>To my earlier simple question...
>My position is simply, that marxists in the US and Britain, as well as
>Germany and France should confine themselves to supporting a regional
>self-determination that precludes intervention and involvement from the
>imperialist countries.     Is that to be seen as giving support to
>Lou's answer-
>Why is that answer yes, Lou?      What more would you have the American
>and European Left do?
>I find this very interesting.     For a quarter of a century American
>Trotskyists have been arguing repeatedly that they could not find the
>time to build an antiwar movement.     That the conditions weren't ripe,
>that the movement could not be pulled from the wind, etc., and so on,
>and so on....
>Now, at one and the same time, I hear that there is more even than that,
>that should be done.     That we shoud not only oppose our own
>government's actions, but that we can find time and energy both to
>oppose other government's actions, too. Governments in the Third World.
>Will this comment also need translation and interpretation also, into
>....Fuck The Chechens, Down With The Chechens...... Fuck The Tibetians,
>Down With the Tibetians...... Fuck the Kashmiri, Down with the Kashmiri,
>ad infinitum?
>After the loss of central planning in the Soviet Union, at least we
>still have micro-management of world affairs from the comrades in the
>US, Britain, France,and Germany.
>What would the Third World do without our distinctive approach of
>supporting their self-determination?
>Tony Abdo

Louis Proyect
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