When the ruling classes commmit suicide, pigs will fly

Owen Jones owen_jones at SPAMcwcom.net
Wed Aug 30 12:54:06 MDT 2000

Reply to Julio Pino, at jpino at kent.edu, who wrote on the 30/8/2000 16:48:

> Actually, I'd rather see the Moslems bomb the Chinese out of the Uighur
> homeland.

 This form of Islamic nationalism is deeply, deeply reactionary, comrade.
You are basically calling for some petty-bourgeois Islamic fundamentalists
to go to war with the (admittedly diminishing) remains of a degenerate
workers' state to set up some Islamic clerical state which would serve as a
prison for the working class. I support the working class of China
overthrowing the ruling bureaucracy which is presently busy restoring
capitalism with the effect of impoverishing millions of workers and forcing
them into unemployment. But what you propose would be a deeply reactionary
step backwards. I do not support Balkanising China and ripping parts off to
form backward Islamic states. In the same way my support for Chechen
national self-determination - not simply to free the oppressed Chechen
people but to free the Russian working class - does not extend to supporting
any of the political content of the rebels themselves; it is purely military
support on grounds that I support any Chechen force which defends its right
to national self-determination, regardless of its political character. But,
above all, a defeat in Chechnya for the Russian bourgeoisie would be a
devastating blow and will untie the working class chauvinistic chains to

 Julio, have I missed something or have you converted to Islam? An Islamic
"Marxist"? I am well aware of the existence of such trends in the Islamic
movement, but this based on the fact that different classes interpret the
scriptures differently according to their differing material conditions. Yet
a devout Muslim peasant in Southern Lebanon who covers his walls with
pictures of Marx and Lenin has deeply confused consciousness.

 My position is always for the death of the extreme reactionary so-called
"Islamic States", and for the working class to bury the ruling class of
countries such as Iran which effectively enslave them. To support their
construction is to set yourself against the working class, from whom support
has never been drawn - it has always been from the petty-bourgeoisie. And
indeed it seems the Iranian workers are beginning to stir again, so
hopefully they will "bomb the clerics and bourgeoisie out of Iran"....


 Owen the Irreconcilable Atheist

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