replying to Yoshie was Re: To Yoshie on our duty in cyber space wasRe: On Academe and the list

Gary MacLennan g.maclennan at
Wed Dec 20 01:13:12 MST 2000

>Point One.

>That said, I do recommend ignoring Brad De Longs, though, if you are a
>type of person who gets worn down or demoralized in a debate
>easily.  PEN-l, however, has many subscribers who hail from various
>Marxist traditions (whose names I've already mentioned in my reply to
>George), and Brad & Ricardo Duchesne are actually in a minority of two,
>regularly ignored by most posters.  If you can't survive on PEN-l, I don't
>know how you can survive daily life in the USA, much less engage in
>political activism which must involve working practically with those who
>do not share your political persuasion.

My dear Yoshie,

I am neither precious nor pretentious.  I do think I could survive in the
USA, though my American friends have added the caveat that I must not
attempt to drive!

The whole point is, 'What is the gain from the pain?'  I do not think Pen-L
needs me nor do I think I need it. I ceretainly do not need to be in any
space occupied by the likes of Brad De Long.  Nor does anyone who is new to
Marxism.  Let me spell it out for you Yoshie.  All academic bullshit apart,
De Long is an *enemy*.  We Irish know what that means.  In my daily life I
have all the contact with enemies that I could ever possibly need.

On the other hand I do need Lou's list and I am conceited enough to think
that occasionally I make a contribution to it.

The point I am trying to emphasize is that Lou's list is different and we
all need to be conscious of that.  I suppose I should not make a value
judgement here but my non presence on Pen L and other lists means that I
must be frank and say 'vive la differance'.

Let me hasten to add that this is in no way a criticism of yourself,
Michael Hoover or Carroll.  None of us can read everything.  None of us can
be on all the lists - I am on four.  I suspect the revolution will survive
me not subscribing to Pen-L.
Point two

>P.S.  I'm also of an opinion that non-black leftists in the USA should
>regularly visit African-American churches -- to network, yes, but also,
>perhaps more importantly, to learn from the oratorical traditions of the
>best of black preachers (how to draw upon Biblical metaphors creatively,
>how to invite audience responses, how to employ rhythmic repetitions to
>build up the momentum, and so on).  We should all practice public speaking.

This is extremely intriguing.  Are you saying that going to a Black church
is the same as subscribing to Pen-L?  In any case I will repeat what I said
in an earlier post.  Lou lives in the world.  I live in the world.  Of the
hundred and one transactions I carry out daily - few, very few, are with
revolutionaries.  I desperately need to increase my contact with Marxists
who can help me breach my isolation and to develop as a Marxist thinker.  I
will say it now loud and clear for Carroll, yourself and Michael Hoover,
that need of mine is met much more by Lou's list than by lists like Pen
-L.  That is why, comrade, I do not want the tenor of Lou's list to be
changed.  I am sure that if you think about this you will agree with me.



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