What Marx REALLY said about Christianity

soil_ride soilride at SPAMemail.msn.com
Sat Dec 23 08:19:19 MST 2000

I apologize for the ommission of my initial post "Marx and the Bible", as I
have forgotten to mention that is was a selection that Marx had written.
But I also in my message left where the quote can be found, so anyone can
read all of what Marx had to say.  It can also be easily said of the entire
book of Isaiah.

Religion has been an instrument of class rule.  I do not deny this at all. I
am in perfect agreement with this statement.

I am not interested in Popes, or the Christian Coalition.  I despise such
christianity holding sway over bourgeios strongholds, because this
christianity that embraces the rich and powerful, has been an empty
christianity and a phony "humanity", that seeks nothing of eliminating
poverty and starvation throughout the world. I am not a preacher, and I
don't have credentials to even be one, so I shouldn't start now by preaching
about God to all atheist marxists.  And that is not my intention with these

My observation has been this, that most Marxists are more "christian" than
the Christians when fighting capitalism and exploitation.

Jose posts:
"God is not revolutionary. If the all knowing, all powerful, all wise
God of the Christians exists, then I, for one, want no part of him. I am
with the Cuban Indian leader Hatuey, who as he was about to be burned at the
stake, refused to blessings of the Spanish priest, saying that if heaven was
full of people from Spain, then he wanted to go to hell.

THAT is a real revolutionary attitude. But, of course, Hatuey and his
people were communists."

Actions by bourgeois christians do not define God, simply because they are
bourgeois using God to justify their actions.  I agree, that if God of the
Christians that burns, murders, and commits genocide is not even a
definition of God.  It is the very definition of the Devil.  Going back to
my selective quotation of Marx on the principles of Christianity, I believe
Marx is absolutely right in mentioning them.  Escpecially when speaking
about the God of the Christians in which atrocities and capitalism has been
used in his name to justify the actions of the bourgeiosie.

However from Jose's perpsective that defines a God that is in favor of such
atrocious and brutality against the poor and the oppressed, is not a God I
would want either.

Like the nihilist and the atheists that says I do not believe in "God
because He would have watched throughout history of atrocities and
oppression and  let it happen"...there must be a God that is humane to say
the least. Christians have used such things as exploitation, murder,
oppression, and human atrocities as instruments of punishment(which instills
the use of religion for Class Rule) against those who are exploitated and

God does not punish.  It was only from our own free will that we have
PUNISHED ourselves through our own actions and that many people in earthly
terms will look upon atrocities and say "God must be punishing us".  Its not
to say God is letting it happen, but that God is revolting against it...with
every act of resistance against this oppression, is an act of love, an act
of God, it matters not if you are buddhist, hindu, marxist, or christian...

So God is revolutionary and the Devil is counter-revolutionary....God is
with us in the fight for the liberation of humankind, while the Devil is in
the fight to enslave all the peoples of the earth. Throughout history there
has been a struggle between God and Satan, the struggle between oppressor
and oppressed. God is the symbol of the underdog...those who are
spiritually, physically, economically weak.  God dwells there and not in
some man made structure called  "Church".  That is the last place to find
God inside a concrete structure.  God became the living example of the
weakness through Jesus. God chose to be born of the peasantry, in a destitue
place as a manger, an animal feeder, to live on a fringe of society that is
lost when compared to the vastness of the rest of the world, to live among
the poor, to fight for those who have no sense of self-worth against an
oppressor that seems to dominate the world and every aspect of life...to die
as a human, but to overcome death, to overcome the oppressor that brings
death to the oppressed.

I am sure that I will get attacked by talking of God and Marxism so much
from both Marxist and Christian camps.  Marxists because of religion, and
Christians because of Marxism.  But the above statements is what I feel and
is unlike the majority of Christian thought.  Albeit what I have to say
about my faith, I am more determined than ever to bring end to the greatest
sin of all, that of social injustice that exists anywhere.  In order for me
to do this, I will have to knock down the wall that bourgeios christians
have built up.

In solidarity and God bless

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