ca[r]rol and lou on religion

Charles Brown CharlesB at
Tue Dec 26 15:01:14 MST 2000

>>> gyanananda at 12/26/00 04:26PM

For example, in Hatha Yoga (physical yoga exercise
popular in west), control is sought over bodily
organs. An expert can conciously control bodily
organ and function like lower breathing and heart
rate. Here, conciousness is controling matter
(reverse of being controlling conciousness). Modern
science has no explanation like western science cannot
explain acupuncture of China. But acupuncture is
practised in China quite sucessfuly.


CB: Not sure that Marxist or materialist proposition is that being "controls"
consciousness.  One famous quote is:

"It is not the consciousness of men that determines their existence, but their social
existence that determines their consciousness. "

Social existence is not the same as an individual person's body , i.e. being.

Marxists do not deny that thoughts can control the body as when my thoughts send a
signal to my fingers to type this.


Ordinary human being with limited sense organs and
scientific instruments percive only very limited
area or range of reality. So with this limited
vision, cannot extrapolate to how reality functions
in other realms or overall. Also, it is mistake
to pass comment on what is materialism and what is
not using this simple minded, partial, limited


CB: Materialism doesn't deny possibility of sub-sub-sub....-sub atomic levels of
objective reality.

However, how does the Yogaist prove these observations- contemplations ? Also, what is
to be done on this sub-sub-sub...-sub level ?  How do we change the world "down" or
"in"  there ?


According to Raja Yoga (whom anyone can try to
practise and test for themself), there are
gross vibrations which can be perceive ordinarily
and then there are subtle vibration in this
universe which can be perceive only in higher
state of conciousness. Actually, there is hiearchy
from gross to more and more subtle vibration. There
are different planes of perception and so existence.
Yogic practise can enable one to access this different
planes and experience other things not in realm of
ordinary existence.

One analogy is human ear cannot hear very high freq
sounds which animals hear. So Marxists have to be more
sophisticated and take open minded science attitude
when discusing religion.


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