For Carrol and lou on religion

Carrol Cox cbcox at
Thu Dec 28 19:04:34 MST 2000

Jim Farmelant wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Dec 2000 19:17:35 +1000 Gary MacLennan
> <g.maclennan at> writes:
> >
> >
> >  At the risk of that flame you threatened me with let me
> > point out something about your attitude here.

This doesn't provoke the flame, for reasons given below.

> > You say you know you all about the necessity for alliances with
> > religious  people. Yet you write about people being  "caught up" i.e.
> not as
> > advanced/liberated as you.

This is a legitimate argument (i.e. does not fail to take for
granted what should be so assumed -- agreement on the
subject of alliances -- hence no flame), but it is wrong.

I agree with Jim's argument below, but I have also a separate
argument, an empirical one. In fact in over 35 years of
working with religious people and letting this attitude show
for the most part, no one has been offended. Christians (at
least Christians who enter into class struggles) are really
fairly tough people (as Marxists should be) and are not
all that easily offended. They believe I am wrong as firmly
as I know they are wrong -- all is well.


> Gary,
> Can not the same objection be made to Marxists in general?
> Do not Marxists hold that they have a more scientific, more
> penetrating understanding of social reality than do non-Marxists?
> Hence, that as consequence, possess a more advanced
> level of consciousness than non-Marxists?  Do not Marxists
> draw a distinction between science and ideology, and do they
> not contend that Marxism is a part of science whereas
> most forms of bourgeois thought is contaminated with
> ideological distortions?
> >Do you seriously think that religious
> > people
> > would not detect that attitude?
> If what you say is correct, then wouldn't the
> same problem arise whenever Marxists collaborate
> with non-Marxists in political alliances?
> Jim F.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Gary
> >
> >
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