re Jose's remarks

Nestor Miguel Gorojovsky gorojovsky at
Sat Jun 10 08:19:23 MDT 2000

En relación a RE: re Jose's remarks ,
el 10 Jun 00, a las 10:58, Mark Jones dijo:

> Jose G. Perez wrote:
> >
> >     You asserted quite flatly that el Niño was a "global-warming
> >     event."
> Don't forget we've gone round the course a few times before on this
> list; I think must of us know by now that El Nino is a very old
> phenomenon, known to generations of fishermen as its name implies (the
> Christ-child; it comes around Xmas time).

Two comments:

1. I strongly suggest our non Spanish speaking comrades to substitute
"ny" for our "ñ", and not "n". This last practice may put you in the
uncomfortable situation of writing "anus" for "year", among others.

2. The Southern Oscillation (El Niño) was known by the ancient
agrarian cultures in the Andes. Before the arrival of the Europeans,
these cultures attempted to forecast the El Niño by carefully
watching the Pleiades at certain moments of the year. Recent
investigations, that have been informed on the lists and yours truly
has commented offline with Les Schaffer, tend to confirm the
empirical validity of this essential trait of the old Andean

3. I must say that I find the following by Mark absolutely
outstanding and of an uncommon insight (and I am not in a flattering

> conflict is between the powerful people in govt behind outfits like
> the NOAA or the Planck Institute or Hadley Centre, and the scientists
> on the front line of research ... is a class divide, and one
> where scientists are increasingly not prepared to water down or dilute
> their message; but at the same time they are bound by their own
> methods and the peer-review process and by their positon as
> career-scientists  to make no statements which are not strictly within
> the limits of their findings.

The situation you describe has been the one that led our Argentinian
Carlos Varsavsky to his "Science, politics, and scientificism" in the
late 60s / early 70s. Since capitalism increasingly transforms the
scientific endeavour in a component of the productive process in an
increasingly enlarging way, scientists tend to become part of the
working class.

Néstor Miguel Gorojovsky
gorojovsky at

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