replying to Julio was Re: The Pope,the international debt and the 1st. of May

Gary MacLennan g.maclennan at SPAMqut.edu.au
Tue May 2 22:43:09 MDT 2000


Voytilla is the bloody Anti-Christ, Julio.  The trick is to understand that
there is no Christ! Would I block with the pope?  Is a worker's strike,
like Paris, worth a mass?  Possibly but I think that the section of the
Manifesto that is relevant is the passage on Feudal Socialism.  Consider
the following:

"Nothing is easier than to give Christian asceticism a Socialist
tinge.  Has not Christianity declaimed against private property, against
marriage, against the state?  Has it not preached in the place of these,
charity and poverty, celibacy and mortificaiton of the flesh, monastic life
and Mother Church?  Christian Socialism is but the holy water with which
the priest consecrates the heart-burnings of the aristocrat."(Marx)

The pope and his blood-soaked predecessors (esp Pacelli) allied with the
Capitalists while socialism and communism were a threat.  Now like so many
other traditional intellectuals Voytilla shakes his hands in horror at that
which he helped to bring about.

Solzhenytsin is an obvious comparison. while Russia stood he was feted in
America.  With the advent of Yeltsin & co, Alexander was no longer
necessary so he was wheeled off stage to somewhere private where he could
continue his idiotic babbling about the lost world of the Romanovs.

It is the collapse of the alliance between the Capitalists and the
conservatives that gives us the key to understanding our conjuncture.  This
alliance was mediated through a commitment to Keynesianism and Welfarism
and the capitalists have abandoned that and gone for the most extreme
neo-liberalism.  There is no communist menace, so why placate the Pope.

Should we ally ourselves with conservatives and traditionalists? Perhaps
but if so on our terms and not theirs.  No more popular fronts.

Strange as it may seem I think the Church etc need the Left more than we
need them. I was greatly heartened by the sight of all those empty pews at
the Easter Services they televised here in Australia.

regards

Gary



At 08:50  2/05/00 -0400, you wrote:
>    Not only would I block with the Pope to stop capitalist globalization
>but also the Antichrist(when he/she arrives).I'll accept, at face value,
>that the Catholic Church right now opposes neoliberalism, for "ethical
>reasons." But it's important to understand from which ethical standpoint
>the Church can critique  "savage capitalism".The Pope understands that
>capitalism is AMORAL, not immoral.Capitalists will quote scripture if it
>serves their purposes, or they can discard with religion all together. (The
>ruling classes of pre-Castro Cuba were never particularly religious, and
>neither are the Miami Cubans, The "Miracle Baby Elian" episode
>notwithstanding. Thus, John Paul II opposes modern capitalism from a
>traditionalist position; he wants to preserve a certain morality that had
>its origins in pre-capitalist and even pre-feudal times. Marx/Engels's
>discussion of "reactionary capitalism' in The Communist Manifesto comes to
>mind here, ie, those European thinkers who favored the overthrow (or at
>least reform)of existing society because they longed for "the good old
>days" before industrial capitalism wrecked havoc with morality.
>    I think the proper attitude of Communists towards El Papa and all
>Christian critics of the New World Order was best xemplified by Fidel when
>he hosted John Paul:First, explain the reasons why the peoples of "Our
>America" have felt antipathy towards the Church; eg, Fidel mentioned the
>racism of the Jesuits in Cuba, and the Church's silence on the genocide of
>the Indians.Second, highlight the way the teachings of the Church SEEMINGLY
>contradict everything capitalism stands for. Third, while as atheists we
>can never reconcile our world views, that is no reason for lack of
>political collaboration.Let's not try to convert each other but fight
>against the common enemy.Fourth, a socialist state must promote secularism
>(The Cuban Constitution even condemns "obscurantism"), but not necesarily
>atheism.Any historical materialist knows religion will fade away.
>Julio Cesar
>
> >My closed friends know my opinion and feelings about religion, churches,
> >priests and popes. It uses be a motiv of joking with Nestor. Educated in a
> >religious school and university, I know really what it means. But beyond my
> >atheist conviction (and other questions as, for instance, abortion) is
> >obvious that the paper that the Catholic Church is playing just now against
> >the imperialist  hegemony, at least in its ethical aspects, is very
> >important and would be analized in the list.
> >
> >Of course I know that the appeal to the Pope means in the poster of CGT
> >mentioned above expresses an attempt to avoid the neccesary socialist tasks
> >that the movement must propose. But I have allways thought that the
> >ideological questions can't hide the real, concrete struggle. If in the name
> >of Pope our workers go to a political general strike I am, I promise you
> >Nestor, able to "ir a misa e hincarme a rezar" (go to mess and knee to pray)
> >as tango Malevaje says.
> >
> >Julio FB
> >
> >Attachment Converted:
>"c:\home\eudora\attach\=Windows-1252QFern=E1ndez_Baraibar=2C_Julio8.vcf"
> >






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