ICFI

Jose G. Perez jg_perez at SPAMbellsouth.net
Tue Nov 7 07:53:26 MST 2000


>>As for whether Gerry was oppressing the women he made advances to, I tend
to disagree.  This presents a rather patronising view of women as helpless
victims.

I don't doubt Gerry Healy was a sleazy, repulsive old bastard, but so what?
Plenty of women are perfectly capable of telling sleazy, revolting men where
to get off.<<

Phillip, I agree completely with you re. Monica & Bill. And that example, in
which an extensive evidentiary record quite clearly showed it was NOT a case
of an "older" "powerful" man pressuring a young woman to favor him with
sexual intimacies, should lead us to tread lightly in cases where the fact
that an older man is involved with a younger woman is automatic proof that
sexual predation was involved. It ain't necessarily so.

However, the fact is that there is a power relationship involved, in a case
like Healy's. And I believe the record shows that by the 70s Healy had
become abusive and a bully in other interactions. For that reason I don't
think we can or should adopt a stance that if Healy tried to use his
position of prestige and authority to get young women (or men) in a
subordinate relationship to him to go to bed with him, this was perfectly
o.k.

José



----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Ferguson" <plf13 at it.canterbury.ac.nz>
To: <marxism at lists.panix.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: ICFI


Jim Farmelant wrote:

>Just as if say a US president wants to make it with one of his young
>interns, what wrong with that?

Actually, nothing.

The hoo-ha around the Clinton-Lewinsky saga was driven by the moral right.
It's a shame to see some on the left buying into it.  Monica actually seems
quite capable of making her own decisions without needing male knights on
the left to 'protect' her.

Ultimately, the two biggest beneficiaries of that liaison are probably
women: Monica and Hilary.  And good luck to them!



>And since Dennis Healy was supposed
>to be a socialist revolutionary, I am reminded of that old '60s quote,
>"that the position of women in the movement is prone."

Dennis Healy was the (Labour Party) British Chancellor of the Exchequer and
deputy prime minister.  I heard he also chased his secretaries and other
women, but he was a different person to Gerry Healy, the leader of the
party of world socialist revolution.  Dennis also had a lot more hair than
Gerry.

Dennis was, however, apparently some kind of commie in his younger years.
But, later he was very much on the Labour Right.

As for whether Gerry was oppressing the women he made advances to, I tend
to disagree.  This presents a rather patronising view of women as helpless
victims.

I don't doubt Gerry Healy was a sleazy, repulsive old bastard, but so what?
Plenty of women are perfectly capable of telling sleazy, revolting men
where to get off.

And some women will choose the opposite course, and decide to sleep with
them.  Nicolle Smith being a name that springs to mind.  And, again, good
luck to her!


Philip Ferguson
















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