gyanananda at gyanananda at
Wed Oct 4 13:15:39 MDT 2000

Mr. Nestor,

Thank you for comment. You say

> Well, the April theses were unmistakably a
>recognition by Lenin that history could not be split
>into separate stages (something he had not
> been doing, but his followers while he was returning
from exile had consistently done, thus exposing what
>he obviously took as a dangerous inmanent danger in
>his own theory and practice).

I am sorry sir but you not correct on this. Lenin
clearly spoke about 2 stage in April Thesis. I quote
Lenin below. Today, Marxism in deep trouble. Both
theory and practice. All Marxist revolutions failed
or defeated. This trouble is both in theory and
practice. In this forum, it is possible to discus
theoritical crisis. Without proper understand and
analysis of past, no progress possible. Otherwise,
only emprical analysis - no science here. If we only
talk of movement, practice,etc then question is why such practice. Then theory become
key. Not bad theory,
idealist theory, but scientfic theory. That is why
I ask my orignal question to which up to now no
real answer from list members.

My orginal question was: what is difference between
concept of permanent revolution (Trotsky) and
2 stage revolution (Lenin)? You say Lenin did not
speak of 2 stage. Now below Lenin speak of 2 stage
very openly in Letters:

"It cannot give freedom because it is a landlord and
capitalist government which fears the people and has
already begun to strike a bargain with the Romanov
dynasty. The tactical problems of our immediate attitude towards this government will
be dealt with
in another article. In it, we shall explain the
peculiarity of the present situation, which is a
transition from the first stage of the revolution to
the second, and why the slogan, the "task of the
day", at this moment must be: Workers, you have
performed miracles of proletarian heroism, the
heroism of the people, in the civil war against
tsarism. You must perform miracles of organisation,
organisation of the proletariat and of the whole people, to prepare the way for your
victory in the
second stage of the revolution."

Lenin clear talk of 2 stage revolutionary process
above and transition from one to other. Lenin again:

"Skobelev, said, according to the newspapers: 'Russia
is on the eve of a second, real [wirklich ]
revolution.' Now that is the truth, from which
Skobelev and Chkheidze have forgotten to draw the
practical conclusions. I cannot judge from here,from
my accursed afar, how near this seond revolution is.
Being on the spot, Skobelev can see things better.
Therefore, I am not raising for myself problems, for
the solution of which I have not and cannot have the necessary concrete data. I am
merely emphasising the
confirmation by Skobelev, an "outside witness", i.e.,
one who does not belong to our Party, of the factual conclusion I drew in my first
letter, namely: that the
February-March Revolution was merely the first stage of the revolution. Russia is
passing through a
peculiar historical moment of transition to the next stage of the revolution, or, to
use Skobelev's
expression, to a 'second revolution'."

Once again Lenin:

""Before February 1917, the immediate task was to
conduct bold revolutionary internationalist
propaganda, summon the masses to fight, rouse them.
The February-March days required the heroism of
devoted struggle to crush the immediate enemy --
tsarism. Now we are in transition from that first
stage of the revolution to the second, from "coming to
grips" with tsarism to "coming to grips" with Guchkov-
Milyukov landlord and capitalist imperialism.
The immediate task is organisation, not only in the stereotyped sense of working to
form stereotyped
organisations, but in the sense of drawing unprecedentedly broad masses of the
classes into an organisation that would take over the military, political and economic
functions of the
state. .....bring near the hour when this government
will be replaced by the "government" of the Soviet of Workers' Deputies."

Sorry for long quote but Lenin clear about transition
from stage 1 (Feb 1917) to stage 2 (Oct 1917).

So now question is where permanent revolution concept
of Trotsky fit here? Is is diffrent or same? Clear
answer please.

> Most Bolsheviks were stunned to hear him exposing >the Theses, and he  threatened
>the leadership with >turning to the rank and file. Trotsky  was obvioulsy
>>reivindicated by this act of Lenin, if any
>reivindication was necessary

You mean Trotsky gave original idea of 2-stage
revolution? I think not (correct me if I mistake)
Lenin got idea of 2 stage process in poor
country from Marx and Engels.

So what is permanent revolution concept of Trotsky
compared to 2 stage process used by Lenin and later
by Mao in China? One other mystery. Two-stage
revolution in Russia and China (poor countries) have
been defeated. What fundamnetal reason? This is
heart of crisis of Marxism.


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