Jim Farmelant farmelantj at
Mon Apr 9 10:54:07 MDT 2001

One difference between C++ and Java is that whereas C++ supports
object-oriented programming, it does not mandate it.  You can
be as object-oriented non-object-oriented as you please.  With
Java, object-orientation is strictly enforced regardless of whether
the object-oriented paradigm is really appropriate to the problem
at hand.  In that sense at least, Java is less flexible than C++.

BTW concerning "Hello World" type programs.  In C++ such a
program might look like the following:
#include <iostream>
using namespace std;

int main(int argc, char* argv[])

 cout << "Hello World!";
 return 0;

As you can see, OO is not being forced upon you where it is not
However, if for whatever reason we did wish to be abit object-oriented
then we could write the following program:

#include <iostream>
using namespace std;

class A        // declaration for class A
 A(){};        // constructor for class A
 ~A(){};        // destructor for class A
 void printout(); // a function member of A

void A::printout()
 cout << "Hello World";
int main(int argc, char* argv[])

 A a;                // instantiates class A as an object a
 a.printout ();
 return 0;

So even if we do our "Hello World" program in an OO manner, the
syntax in C++ is still simpler than the corresponding code would be
in Java.

Shifting to a different issue, although CS degrees are much more common
in the programming world than they were thirty years ago, most
today, do not have such degrees (I do not for example).  It is also
interesting to note that the number of CS degrees awarded by US
universities has been stagnant since the late 1980s.  This is probably
because having
CS degree is not a guarantee that you will be hired as a programmer (many
CS graduates find themselves doing tech support or network administration
jobs) and because many people manage to become programmers without
such a degree.  Also, CS curricula tend to be oriented to the teaching of
science theory (primariry the theoretical aspects of data structures and
algorithms which is not necessarily directly relevent to what industry
is looking for in prospective programmers).

Jim F.

On Mon, 09 Apr 2001 11:04:55 -0400 Louis Proyect <lnp3 at> writes:
> Last week I was at Sun's education center in NYC taking Introduction
> to
> dinosaur doomed to extinction anyhow. Newer programmers tend to
> have
> computer science degrees and are less interested in creativity than
> in
> money to begin with. In the Java class, we were asked to introduce
> ourselves on the first morning, including one personal datum. The
> other
> programmers, who were young enough to be my children, said: "I just
> got
> back from Las Vegas. I stayed up all night long having a wild time"
> or "I
> am a big summer Olympics fan. Last year I went to Australia just to
> see the
> games." When it came to me, I said, "I run a Marxism list, whose web
> site
> gets 6,000 hits per month."
> Call me brontosaurus.
> Louis Proyect
> Marxism mailing list:
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