Rules of engagement

Henry C.K. Liu hliu at mindspring.com
Fri Apr 27 08:51:01 MDT 2001


It does not wash to just say war is hell.  The Vietnam conflict was not a
"war".  Congress never declared war on any government.  American soldiers were
sent to Vietnam to save the natives from human right abuses by communism.  The
method was to slaughter civilians in the name of soldier battle fright. It is a
policy of imposing the doctrine of "better dead than red" for the natives.  The
is the doctrine of moral imperialism.

Bob Kerry, like McNamara, was repentant a couple of decades late.  The
rationalization was that being a team player was everything.
The US has been claiming its triumphantism as the natural results of its
superior morality, respect for human rights and freedom.  Below is an exchange
I had on pkt on the fall of the USSR:

Subject:  The Fall of the USSR
    Date:  Tue, 24 Apr 2001 22:23:12 -0400
   From:  "Henry C.K. Liu" <hliu at mindspring.com>
      To:  "pkt at csf.colorado.edu" <pkt at csf.colorado.edu>



"William F. Hummel" wrote:

>> Henry I can't believe you would write such stuff as this.
> >
> > The USSR also made impressive gains in the 1920s.  Reagan's star war arms
race broke the USSR
>> and Mao's China was held back entirely by US embargo and isolation of China.

>
> USSR broke because its command economy and totally corrupt political system
couldn't compete in the > civilian goods and quality of life arena with the
western democracies, and the Kremlin couldn't hide the > facts from its
citizens any longer.  Why else would a national glasnost develop within?  The
collapse of > the Soviets was inevitable.  Star Wars was a joke and Soviet
scientists knew it.  As an engineer, I
> worked on an aspect of it for the US, and know a little something about it.

> Your own credibility on other issues is placed in question with such stuff as
you have been writing
> lately.
>
> William

Well, let us hear from some Americans of impeccable credibility:


The Fall of the USSR

"The Soviet Union is not now, nor will it be during the next decade, in the
throes of a true systematic
crisis, for it boasts enormous unused reserves of political and social
stability that suffice to endure the
deepest difficulties."
--Seweryn Bialer, Professor of Political Science, Columbia University, Foreign
Affairs Magazine,
1982/3.

"I found more goods in the shops, more food in the markets, more cars on the
street ... those in the
United States who think the Soviet Union is on the verge of economic and social
collapse, ready with
one small push to go over the brink are wishful thinkers who are only kidding
themselves."
--Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., 1982.

"All evidence indicates that the Reagan administration has abandoned both
containment and detonate for
a very different objective: destroying the Soviet Union as a world power and
possibly even its
Communist system. [This is a] potentially fatal form of Sovietphobia ... a
pathological rather than a
healthy response to the Soviet Union."
--Stephen Cohen, Princeton University Sovietologist, 1983.

"That the Soviet system has made great material progress in recent years is
evident both from the
statistics and from the general urban scene...One sees it in the appearance of
well-being of the people on
the streets...and the general aspect of restaurants, theaters, and shops...
Partly, the Russian system
succeeds because, in contrast with the Western industrial economies, it makes
full use of its manpower."
--John Kenneth Galbraith, Professor of Economics, Harvard University, 1984.

"On the economic front, for the first time in its history the Soviet leadership
was able to pursue
successfully a policy of guns and butter as well as growth ... The Soviet
citizen-worker, peasant, and
professional - has become accustomed in the Brezhnev period to an uninterrupted
upward trend in his
well-being ..."
--John Kenneth Galbraith, Professor of Economics, Harvard University,
New Yorker Magazine, 1984.

"What counts is results, and there can be no doubt that the Soviet planning
system has been a powerful
engine for economic growth... The Soviet model has surely demonstrated that a
command economy is
capable of mobilizing resources for rapid growth."
--Paul Samuelson, MIT, Nobel laureate in economics, 1985.

"It's clear that the ideologies of Communism, socialism and capitalism are all
in trouble."
--James Reston, New York Times, 1985.

"Can economic command significantly compress and accelerate the growth process?
The remarkable
performance of the Soviet Union suggests that it can. In 1920 Russia was but a
minor figure in the
economic councils of the world. Today it is a country whose economic
achievements bear comparison
with those of the United States."
--Lester Thurow, Professor of Economics, MIT,
The Economic Problem, 1989.

All the above were correct observations in their time because no one expected
the US would engage in
economic war against the USSR. Honorable people were abiding by the rules of
peaceful cometition.

Then, the Reagan coordinated defense policies kicked in:

"Ladies and gentlemen, if it had not been for the Reagan defense buildup, if
the United States had not
demonstrated that it is willing not only to stand up for freedom but to devote
considerable sums of
money to defending it, we  probably would not be sitting here today having a
free discussion between
Russians and Americans."
--Boris Pinsker, Soviet Economist.

"American policy in the 1980s was a catalyst for the collapse of the Soviet
Union."
--Oleg Kalugin, former KGB general (Victory: The Reagan Administration's Secret
Strategy That
Hastened the Collapse of the Soviet Union, page xi.)

"[Reagan administration policies] were a major factor in the demise of the
Soviet system."
--Yevgenny Novikov, former senior staff member of the Soviet Communist Party
Central Committee
(CPCC) (Victory: The Reagan Administration's Secret Strategy That Hastened the
Collapse of the
Soviet Union, page xi.)

In a introduction to Victory: The Reagan Administration's Secret Strategy That
Hastened the Collapse of
the Soviet Union, Newt Gringich wrote:

Much of the news media and liberal academia would have you believe that
Gorbachev was the hero
who modernized the Soviet Union and liberated it from the past.  Schweizer
outlines in detail the long
strategic effort to defeat the Soviet Union through a multiplicity of specific
strategies.  From delaying
and minimizing the natural gas pipeline to western Europe, to working with the
Saudis to bring down the
price of oil (the number one source of hard currency for the Soviet Union), to
actively working to cut
off technology from reaching the Soviet Union, to launching an arms race of
high technology systems
that would bloc obsolesce the old systems and force the Soviets into an
exhausting effort to keep up, to
financing opposition forces in Afghanistan, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Central
America.

Now, several Reagan advisors have written that they advised Reagan that in the
1980s the Soviets had
more planes and tanks.  When Reagan asked what the US had more of, the answer
was money.  Then
the strategy was born to out spend the USSR, resulting in the biggest deficit
in history.  The strategy
worked, but it was not communist ideology that did the USSR in. It was economic
war from the US.

As for China, I have already answered and the subject is now off limit on this
list. My final post on China was rejected.

Henry C.K. Liu






Louis Proyect wrote:

> The New York Times, April 26, 2001, Thursday, Late Edition - Final
>
> Ex-Senator Kerrey Says Raid He Led in '69 Killed Civilians
>
> By AMY WALDMAN
>
> Bob Kerrey, a former United States senator who won the Medal of Honor for
> his military service in Vietnam, has acknowledged that a combat mission he
> led there three decades ago caused the deaths of 13 to 20 unarmed
> civilians, most of them women and children. . .
>
> The incident, he said, illustrated why the military needed to provide
> training not only in how to kill, but also how to cope with killing. "When
> contemplating war we must abandon euphemism and answer the question: does
> the cause justify sending young men out to kill other human beings?" he
> said in the speech.
>
> When he finished speaking, Mr. Kerrey received a standing ovation. Men his
> age, he said, came up to him to describe similar experiences.
>
> He also said that while attending a conference last weekend at the United
> States Military Academy at West Point, he had discussed the incident at
> Thanh Phong with Gary Solis, who is a war crimes expert who teaches the
> rules of war at the academy.
>
> "It's the first time I had read the rules of war," Mr. Kerrey said. "I
> certainly wasn't trained in them."
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/26/nyregion/26KERR.html
>
> ====
>
> NY Times, April 27, 2001
>
> Police Dept. Rejects Punishment for Officers in Diallo Shooting
>
> By ROBERT D. McFADDEN
>
> Police Commissioner Bernard B. Kerik has decided not to discipline the four
> officers who killed Amadou Diallo in a hail of gunfire in the Bronx two
> years ago, but will order them to undergo retraining in tactics,
> high-ranking police officials said last night.
>
> These officials said Mr. Kerik would announce as early as today that he had
> accepted recommendations by two departmental investigating panels that
> found that the officers, despite their barrage at an unarmed man, had not
> violated police guidelines because they believed that Mr. Diallo had a gun
> and that their lives were in imminent danger.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/27/nyregion/27DIAL.html
>
> Louis Proyect
> Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org




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